【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)

[Nazarach]

【ℤA】Forever Statue - I THINK he’s Metallic Silver Sable Champagne Blanket, but I’m not really sure. Could he be some pearl combination?

I think because his parents both were amber Champs he could be also a bay base (wild bay because i don't see much of an offset where the black/grayish Color on his legs would've be) with champagne, as they definitly would have shown cr, it can only be Pearl (he also has really visibly freckles wich is an indicator for some Pearl involvment) - both have ancestry that could fit into that assumption, so a Bay Pearl champagne with lp would be my guess
E_ A_ prl/prl Ch Lp/n Z/n

【ℤA】Spiral Echo - Same confusion as to whether or not this boy is pearl as well!

I'm pretty sure he is a classic cream - meaning black base (no mealy in his foalpictures) and one champagne + 1cream (his eyes were blue as a foal but are dark now, it's pretty caracteristic) his shade is also really similiar to one of my own pseudo-whites, just one dillute less that made her mane lighter if you want to compare the foal Pictures http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1363822
So something along
E_ a/a Cr/n Ch/n

I could be wrong on both accounts, but from what is visible these would be my guesses

[BlackOak2]

Updated Sept 18 2018


【ℤA】Forever Statue - I THINK he’s Metallic Silver Sable Champagne Blanket, but I’m not really sure. Could he be some pearl combination?


【ℤA】Spiral Echo - Same confusion as to whether or not this boy is pearl as well!

.

I believe Forever Statue is a gold cream. Champagne and a single cream on chestnut. Remember that pearl can't hide when paired with creams. If he had a hidden pearl in his pedigree, since he inherited the single cream, his coat would've appeared as a pseudo-white or nearly so.

Spiral Echo appears to be a classic cream. Champagne and a single cream on black.

I don't think either of these lines have any hidden pearl. But I could always be wrong, dilutes are yet not my strong suit.

[Ziel]

【ℤA】Forever Statue - I THINK he’s Metallic Silver Sable Champagne Blanket, but I’m not really sure. Could he be some pearl combination?

I think because his parents both were amber Champs he could be also a bay base (wild bay because i don't see much of an offset where the black/grayish Color on his legs would've be) with champagne, as they definitly would have shown cr, it can only be Pearl (he also has really visibly freckles wich is an indicator for some Pearl involvment) - both have ancestry that could fit into that assumption, so a Bay Pearl champagne with lp would be my guess
E_ A_ prl/prl Ch Lp/n Z/n

I believe Forever Statue is a gold cream. Champagne and a single cream on chestnut. Remember that pearl can't hide when paired with creams. If he had a hidden pearl in his pedigree, since he inherited the single cream, his coat would've appeared as a pseudo-white or nearly so.

I'm going to have to agree with Nazarach on this one - according to this guide I tend to use, a Double Pearl Champagne horse would look a lot like a Single Cream Champagne horse, but will have very visible freckling, which he definitely has. I've produced a number of Gold Creams, and he's far too dark in both coat and mane for that - so I think Metallic Silver Wild Bay Pearl Champagne is probably correct!

【ℤA】Spiral Echo - Same confusion as to whether or not this boy is pearl as well!

I'm pretty sure he is a classic cream - meaning black base (no mealy in his foalpictures) and one champagne + 1cream (his eyes were blue as a foal but are dark now, it's pretty caracteristic) his shade is also really similiar to one of my own pseudo-whites, just one dillute less that made her mane lighter if you want to compare the foal Pictures http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1363822
So something along
E_ a/a Cr/n Ch/n

I could be wrong on both accounts, but from what is visible these would be my guesses

Spiral Echo appears to be a classic cream. Champagne and a single cream on black.

Welp, there's a consensus there!

Thanks for your help guys. <3

[Baranduin Brewster]

【NEED HELP WITH】
Updated Sept 18 2018


【ℤA】Forever Statue - I THINK he’s Metallic Silver Sable Champagne Blanket, but I’m not really sure. Could he be some pearl combination?

.[/center]

That horse is actually a Silver Classic Champagne if you look at the foal picture, there is no evidence of a bay based on it (no dark legs), there is also no evidence of a brown coat (no different color in the flank/belly/muzzle).

Horses Name


Here is a picture of a Silver Double Pearl with Champagne on Black

[Ziel]

【NEED HELP WITH】
Updated Sept 18 2018


【ℤA】Forever Statue - I THINK he’s Metallic Silver Sable Champagne Blanket, but I’m not really sure. Could he be some pearl combination?

That horse is actually a Silver Classic Champagne if you look at the foal picture, there is no evidence of a bay based on it (no dark legs), there is also no evidence of a brown coat (no different color in the flank/belly/muzzle).

Horses Name


Here is a picture of a Silver Double Pearl with Champagne on Black

That "Classic Champagne" you've linked looks... nothing like what "Classic Champagne" is, as listed in this guide: http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... =13&t=2158

I have a Classic Champagne horse:



Your horse you linked that is "Classic Champagne", as 【ℤA】Forever Statue, shows pangare in their foal picture - which, black horses do NOT have pangare as foals. They're solid-colored.

Amber Champagne already dilutes the dark markings on the legs, so I can't help but wonder if further dilution would make them nigh-impossible to see...

[Baranduin Brewster]

That horse is actually a Silver Classic Champagne if you look at the foal picture, there is no evidence of a bay based on it (no dark legs), there is also no evidence of a brown coat (no different color in the flank/belly/muzzle).

Horses Name


Here is a picture of a Silver Double Pearl with Champagne on Black

That "Classic Champagne" you've linked looks... nothing like what "Classic Champagne" is, as listed in this guide: http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... =13&t=2158

I have a Classic Champagne horse:



Your horse you linked that is "Classic Champagne", as 【ℤA】Forever Statue, shows pangare in their foal picture - which, black horses do NOT have pangare as foals. They're solid-colored.

Amber Champagne already dilutes the dark markings on the legs, so I can't help but wonder if further dilution would make them nigh-impossible to see...

Actually, the silver gives the the Classic Champagne the muddy color, and black based foals that have silver do carry pangare and it can show as an adult as well.

Here is a Silver Dapple that as a foal does have Pangare

Horses Name

[Nazarach]

Actually, the silver gives the the Classic Champagne the muddy color, and black based foals that have silver do carry pangare and it can show as an adult as well.

Here is a Silver Dapple that as a foal does have Pangare

Horses Name

But Forever Statue has no silver in his adult form - which your horse had - so I think wild bay base makes more sense

[Baranduin Brewster]

Actually, the silver gives the the Classic Champagne the muddy color, and black based foals that have silver do carry pangare and it can show as an adult as well.

Here is a Silver Dapple that as a foal does have Pangare

Horses Name

But Forever Statue has no silver in his adult form - which your horse had - so I think wild bay base makes more sense

Actually he does have silver (mane/tail is silver), if you're referring to the lack of dapples, dapples do not always show up with silver.

And since the cream gene lightens the coat with the horse, Forever Statue is way to dark to carry double pearl. There is a simple test, breed him several times to a double cream, and the foal will not be a single cream + pearl. This will force the pearl gene to show (which it will not).

[Nazarach]

Actually he does have silver (mane/tail is silver), if you're referring to the lack of dapples, dapples do not always show up with silver.

And since the cream gene lightens the coat with the horse, Forever Statue is way to dark to carry double pearl. There is a simple test, breed him several times to a double cream, and the foal will not be a single cream + pearl. This will force the pearl gene to show (which it will not).

ok, that was worded badly, I meant he has no silver pangaré in his adult form, and foals that have silver pangaré tend to keep it, so if it vanishes it isn't pangeré because of silver but normal foal-pangaré which vanishes (and i know that black silvers don't anlways have dapples as i have a few myself).
I agree that breeding him would be the best way to find out the pearl. As I mentioned, I'm not that sure but can only say what I know from the guides and his really visible freckles are more common in double pearls...

[Baranduin Brewster]

Actually he does have silver (mane/tail is silver), if you're referring to the lack of dapples, dapples do not always show up with silver.

And since the cream gene lightens the coat with the horse, Forever Statue is way to dark to carry double pearl. There is a simple test, breed him several times to a double cream, and the foal will not be a single cream + pearl. This will force the pearl gene to show (which it will not).

ok, that was worded badly, I meant he has no silver pangaré in his adult form, and foals that have silver pangaré tend to keep it, so if it vanishes it isn't pangeré because of silver but normal foal-pangaré which vanishes (and i know that black silvers don't anlways have dapples as i have a few myself).
I agree that breeding him would be the best way to find out the pearl. As I mentioned, I'm not that sure but can only say what I know from the guides and his really visible freckles are more common in double pearls...

Not always true, I have been breeding for non pangare in the adult form for my Silver Dapple Appaloosa line, but here is a dapple version of the Silver Classic Champagne

Horses Name


Compare the foal pictures, both are nearly the same. And mine has no pearl and is black based as dapples only appear on black horses (unless sooty dapple, which he doesn't have) because he is black and he isn't pearl.

I did think this was a double pearl for a very long time, as it is confusing. If you think about what silver does to black horses it changes the coat color of black based horses makes it yellowish when applied to the cream gene and apricot when pearl, it does make sense. Regardless of the pearl issue, there is no evidence of bay markings on him (or brown/chestnut base) as a foal, so that would leave him as black based.