Tobiano - strange happenings...

[AltNazarach]

So, I thought Tobiano was dominant?
My mare just threw a foal that has a little sock when neither her nor the sire had a To expression...how come?



Sire http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1619760
Dam http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1378097

[Aela]

So, I thought Tobiano was dominant?
My mare just threw a foal that has a little sock when neither her nor the sire had a To expression...how come?



Sire http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1619760
Dam http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1378097

You're right, that shouldn't happen. Here are my speculations of what could have possibly happened:
1. Sire is not actually the colour he appears to be - he could be a glitchy AC horse
2. White markings, unrelated to tobiano, have been introduced to the game
3. One of the parents expresses tobiano so minimally we can't see it
4. There's an error in the way tobiano works in this instance or in the game generally

It'll be interesting to see if anyone has an explanation :)

[Tjigra]

Sire probably has a very small star which we can't see due to the thick mane being in the way? As he is AC horse, there are no pictures of him before the mane grew out.
This is the only idea I can come up with.

[BlackOak2]

I have experienced this myself. Working specifically with tarpans. I don't want tobiano mixed in with my leopard tarpans and I've had one AC stock tarpan stud that has thrown tobiano foals with no indications himself.
Though I didn't keep any of the foals (for the obvious reason I didn't want it in my stock), he not only threw more than a couple, but one or two of his offspring (which don't appear to have any tobiano as well), also threw a foal or two with the markings. Again, I didn't keep those foals and appear to have since bred the tobiano genes from this AC stud out of my stock.




I assumed I just missed seeing something under or hidden behind hair, but perhaps it is a bug or something and must be looked into.
If I come across another one of these, I will hold onto the foals for further research.

[Silverine]

From my experiments, I don't think the tiny socks are related to tobiano. I could be wrong on that account, but from the crossings I've done I've never had socks spread into large To patches and large To patches shrink down to socks. The least I've gotten from large To (that wasn't just plain solid) was knee-high white on one front. The most I've gotten from plain sock crosses was cannon-high on all four (plus possible facial white).

Of course that doesn't mean that they aren't both tobiano, just some experiential stuff I thought worth considering.

[BlackOak2]

From my experiments, I don't think the tiny socks are related to tobiano. I could be wrong on that account, but from the crossings I've done I've never had socks spread into large To patches and large To patches shrink down to socks. The least I've gotten from large To (that wasn't just plain solid) was knee-high white on one front. The most I've gotten from plain sock crosses was cannon-high on all four (plus possible facial white).

Of course that doesn't mean that they aren't both tobiano, just some experiential stuff I thought worth considering.

I think I understand what you say, but I think I have one that disproves your point? I'm not sure.
This is a horse I had produced some time ago (well, not really that long ago, about a month I suppose).




These are the AC Stock he came down from, it's not too long a lineage, so you can certainly double check, about ten generations or so, but these 5 AC horses repeat. The last one, the big belgian is the only one with Tobiano.











But even it this does disprove your experiments, maybe what's going on is that there's two types of 'marking' tobiano, one that can produce paints and one that can't. Which, perhaps may mean that we have marking-tobiano and paint-tobiano?

[Silverine]

But even it this does disprove your experiments, maybe what's going on is that there's two types of 'marking' tobiano, one that can produce paints and one that can't. Which, perhaps may mean that we have marking-tobiano and paint-tobiano?

Interesting. As I said, my evidence was anecdotal at best. Perhaps tobiano behaves similarly to sabino in real-life - tiny socks and stars/stripes can be sabino, just as can large belly splashes. And there are also horses that carry the gene but have such a small white factor that is not visible. Even our Lp horses on here can have such a small white factor that they show no spots or snowflakes (though I've yet to find an Lp positive that has no visible indicators, such as varnish or bronzing).

What might be happening with the posted horse is that one parent has To but no white factor, while the the other has white factor but no To.

[BlackOak2]

But even it this does disprove your experiments, maybe what's going on is that there's two types of 'marking' tobiano, one that can produce paints and one that can't. Which, perhaps may mean that we have marking-tobiano and paint-tobiano?

Interesting. As I said, my evidence was anecdotal at best. Perhaps tobiano behaves similarly to sabino in real-life - tiny socks and stars/stripes can be sabino, just as can large belly splashes. And there are also horses that carry the gene but have such a small white factor that is not visible. Even our Lp horses on here can have such a small white factor that they show no spots or snowflakes (though I've yet to find an Lp positive that has no visible indicators, such as varnish or bronzing).

What might be happening with the posted horse is that one parent has To but no white factor, while the the other has white factor but no To.

Now that would make absolute sense, so just like Lp, it's a two-gene control, a switch for on/off and then also the actual patterning genes carried separately.

(I've also found no Lp carries without some sort of visible indicators)

I thought we had a couple players that were going to work a little on identifying some of these To genes? I was waiting to see a topic about it, but... did I miss it? All I've seen are 'favorites' patterning posts.

[Silverine]

Now that would make absolute sense, so just like Lp, it's a two-gene control, a switch for on/off and then also the actual patterning genes carried separately.

(I've also found no Lp carries without some sort of visible indicators)

I thought we had a couple players that were going to work a little on identifying some of these To genes? I was waiting to see a topic about it, but... did I miss it? All I've seen are 'favorites' patterning posts.

I read the same, but haven't seen anything come of it. The most I've seen is people focusing on facial white, but even then it just looks like people breeding them for fun/to sell them off rather than figuring the genes out. Perhaps we should make one like the leopard topic.

[BlackOak2]

I read the same, but haven't seen anything come of it. The most I've seen is people focusing on facial white, but even then it just looks like people breeding them for fun/to sell them off rather than figuring the genes out. Perhaps we should make one like the leopard topic.

I was also thinking about creating one. But although I like looking at them, I don't have room or time amongst my other projects to dedicate to this new one.

I also don't think we'll get as far as we have like we did in the leopard project. However, that seems to be as far as we'll get also... I haven't come up with anything new or solid recently on Lp anyway.