Need the details

[Stick]

I know I keep saying I'm getting better at this, but... I only got as far as "metallic silver roan" on this guy before I realized I'm still lost.

Unagi


Any help with his genes, how to identify them, and where they first show up in his lineage, would be a huge help. Maybe some day I'll be able to figure it out on my own, but today is not that day.

[BlackOak2]

I know I keep saying I'm getting better at this, but... I only got as far as "metallic silver roan" on this guy before I realized I'm still lost.


Any help with his genes, how to identify them, and where they first show up in his lineage, would be a huge help. Maybe some day I'll be able to figure it out on my own, but today is not that day.

Considering he has quite a lineage, I won't go back too many generations.

You are correct about both silver and roan. I even agree with the metallic.
Do you see the dappling affect under the roan? It's extremely hard to see, but it's there. Combined with the silver making this horse appear gray in color, these things tell you that this horse has a black-base. So he would be a dappled silver black. This dappling affect only occurs alongside silver when combined on a black horse (there are also sooty dapples that affect the other colors in the same fashion when paired with the sooty gene, but they're caused by two separate genes: sooty on colors not black or silver on black only).

Roan could've come directly from his grandsire, Fabulous Bull. It does not look like it came from any other in his linage, however, the pseudo-whites it's hard to tell roan at times, so there's a chance it could've come from the fallabella line.
Silver also appears to come from him.
There is a chance he will varnish out if he inherited Lp from his mother, but there's no apparent leopard spotting, so he probably missed that gene.
There is also a slim chance of having inherited the single cream from his father (from the pseudo-white fallabella line). I'm not up-to-date on single creams on silver black horses. If he throws a buckskin or palomino with a bay or chestnut, then he'll be a carrier, but just because he doesn't throw those colors, doesn't necessarily mean he's not a carrier. Somebody with more experience with the cream on blacks would probably be able to answer directly.

[Stick]

Considering he has quite a lineage, I won't go back too many generations.

You are correct about both silver and roan. I even agree with the metallic.
Do you see the dappling affect under the roan? It's extremely hard to see, but it's there. Combined with the silver making this horse appear gray in color, these things tell you that this horse has a black-base. So he would be a dappled silver black. This dappling affect only occurs alongside silver when combined on a black horse (there are also sooty dapples that affect the other colors in the same fashion when paired with the sooty gene, but they're caused by two separate genes: sooty on colors not black or silver on black only).

Roan could've come directly from his grandsire, Fabulous Bull. It does not look like it came from any other in his linage, however, the pseudo-whites it's hard to tell roan at times, so there's a chance it could've come from the fallabella line.
Silver also appears to come from him.
There is a chance he will varnish out if he inherited Lp from his mother, but there's no apparent leopard spotting, so he probably missed that gene.
There is also a slim chance of having inherited the single cream from his father (from the pseudo-white fallabella line). I'm not up-to-date on single creams on silver black horses. If he throws a buckskin or palomino with a bay or chestnut, then he'll be a carrier, but just because he doesn't throw those colors, doesn't necessarily mean he's not a carrier. Somebody with more experience with the cream on blacks would probably be able to answer directly.

Thank you! And oh yes, I realize now that I'd asked for when the various genes "first" appear... but I worded that badly, haha. I'd meant first when going backwards from him; I wouldn't want you to go through his whole humongous lineage.

Gosh thank you for pointing out those dapples, I don't think I'd ever see them otherwise on this old laptop. Dapple silver black makes sense. And yeah, I'd been wondering if he'd inherited a dilute gene in there somewhere, but didn't know what it'd look like with the silver and roan.

EDIT: Actually, now I'm confused as to why his sire kept his dark legs and face, but this guy is completely silvery. Why is that?

[Nazarach]

Considering he has quite a lineage, I won't go back too many generations.

You are correct about both silver and roan. I even agree with the metallic.
Do you see the dappling affect under the roan? It's extremely hard to see, but it's there. Combined with the silver making this horse appear gray in color, these things tell you that this horse has a black-base. So he would be a dappled silver black. This dappling affect only occurs alongside silver when combined on a black horse (there are also sooty dapples that affect the other colors in the same fashion when paired with the sooty gene, but they're caused by two separate genes: sooty on colors not black or silver on black only).

Roan could've come directly from his grandsire, Fabulous Bull. It does not look like it came from any other in his linage, however, the pseudo-whites it's hard to tell roan at times, so there's a chance it could've come from the fallabella line.
Silver also appears to come from him.
There is a chance he will varnish out if he inherited Lp from his mother, but there's no apparent leopard spotting, so he probably missed that gene.
There is also a slim chance of having inherited the single cream from his father (from the pseudo-white fallabella line). I'm not up-to-date on single creams on silver black horses. If he throws a buckskin or palomino with a bay or chestnut, then he'll be a carrier, but just because he doesn't throw those colors, doesn't necessarily mean he's not a carrier. Somebody with more experience with the cream on blacks would probably be able to answer directly.

Thank you! And oh yes, I realize now that I'd asked for when the various genes "first" appear... but I worded that badly, haha. I'd meant first when going backwards from him; I wouldn't want you to go through his whole humongous lineage.

Gosh thank you for pointing out those dapples, I don't think I'd ever see them otherwise on this old laptop. Dapple silver black makes sense. And yeah, I'd been wondering if he'd inherited a dilute gene in there somewhere, but didn't know what it'd look like with the silver and roan.

EDIT: Actually, now I'm confused as to why his sire kept his dark legs and face, but this guy is completely silvery. Why is that?

Hi there, I've wanted to add to the question of silver and cream on blacks ^^

he is just a dappled silver black roan; in his foal picture the shade is to 'warm' or brown-ish for him to be smoky, for comparison

this is a Silver Smoky Black foal


that is your boy


notice that warmer/ brownish shade I meant? 1 Cream on Black is always somewhat dull and more greyish
(If you want to have some examples, in this topic some of the differing shades of smoky blacks were shown http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... 13&t=15194).

And for your question regarding the sire, he has a brown base. Brown just lightens overall with the silver and roan never covers the legs and starts only from the cheeks to the neck downwards, so him having a dark face and legs is quite normal. Regarding your boy, Silver on blacks can create an impression of a silver/grey version of mealy and lightens the legs, belly and nose. Because Unagi is also roan, the border from the lightend nose to the roan(ed) area is very short and he seems much 'lighter' overall in comparison to the sire.

[Stick]

.

Oh wow! Thanks so much for coming back to this thread and adding some extra detail and explanation to it! It really helps a lot. I really only had a vague understanding of what silver actually "does" in different instances.

[Nazarach]

.

Oh wow! Thanks so much for coming back to this thread and adding some extra detail and explanation to it! It really helps a lot. I really only had a vague understanding of what silver actually "does" in different instances.

I don't mind as it was questions regarding Blacks - which I enjoy in all their (sometimes surprising) shades ^^ And for the silver, I often fight with it, so when I think I can answer a question to it, I have fund as it tends to be satisfactionary in itself