Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion

[Silverine]

I am far from a horse purchaser, but I have ridden a couple different breeds and I've found that I've been drawn to arabian abilities and quarter horse or draft horse movement. The big, long strides are the easiest for me to adapt to. I know I don't like thoroughbred at all. But then again, if I knew and used then, what I know and can implement now, that may have been a much different experience.
I agree that drugging is indeed still very prevalent. And not just that either, there's a lot of equipment, really training equipment that I see being utilized in high level classes that I just don't agree with. Sure horses can be difficult and different, but the rider skills and training both have to be done skillfully and knowledgeably enough that crutches aren't needed.
But who am I to say anything anyway, I never got out of the training show classes! Hah!

I personally don't like (most) arabians. The ones I've worked with have been more hot than I like. (Not that they're a bad breed, they're just not my cup of tea.) I of course like gaited movement, otherwise the trot doesn't matter too much to me but for the canter (and lope for that matter) I love the big, uphill, rocking-horse style canter. Which most people seem to hate, so I guess I'm weird. XD I don't mind other types of canter but those are my favorite.

For me if it's a training aid it doesn't belong in the show ring (unless it's a local, schooling, or training class). If you're in a big show you're there to show what the you and the horse are capable of, not what the horse can be forced to do through equipment. I don't mind things like crops and spurs as long as they're used correctly (I use the little english knob spurs to refine the signals my heels are sending - it's easier to give a pinpoint cue with a spur than with your whole heel) but even the most mundane equipment can be misused. There's been some noseband controversy in the dressage arena lately.

[BlackOak2]

I personally don't like (most) arabians. The ones I've worked with have been more hot than I like. (Not that they're a bad breed, they're just not my cup of tea.) I of course like gaited movement, otherwise the trot doesn't matter too much to me but for the canter (and lope for that matter) I love the big, uphill, rocking-horse style canter. Which most people seem to hate, so I guess I'm weird. XD I don't mind other types of canter but those are my favorite.

For me if it's a training aid it doesn't belong in the show ring (unless it's a local, schooling, or training class). If you're in a big show you're there to show what the you and the horse are capable of, not what the horse can be forced to do through equipment. I don't mind things like crops and spurs as long as they're used correctly (I use the little english knob spurs to refine the signals my heels are sending - it's easier to give a pinpoint cue with a spur than with your whole heel) but even the most mundane equipment can be misused. There's been some noseband controversy in the dressage arena lately.

See, that's weird to me. I know arabians are a hot-blooded type of horse, but whenever I'm around any (especially handling them), it's like a controlled type of 'manic' that they have. They are the one breed I always feel 'safe' around (if one can ever be truly safe around an animal that can injure you with just their size). Maybe it's more my own personality that clicks better with that breed than another breed. I did have the chance to ride one gaited breed...once. It was something that would've taken me getting used to, but like many adults, I too suffer from back issues so a gaited breed may be on my plate for my next horse. That specifically because I've always had trouble riding the canter and it could very well be because of my back. Who knows.
I have heard a bit of that noseband controversy I think. The figure eights and the drop-nosebands, right? I think this is the same one that is connected to the tongues sticking out that force some dressage horses to switch to arena jumpers. It has a habit of peeving me off, so I try to only learn and hear about the basic arguments, instead of learning about every aspect of the arguments.
In my opinion, if you're a professional rider and you're riding a professional horse, then it is your choice of crop, spurs, bits and saddles that really should be the only changes made. I'd really like to see certain things become restricted in top circuits... like martingales for arena jumpers and cross country courses. Or the whole ring bits some thoroughbreds are made to wear for racing. I don't know the name for those ring-bits, but it's really just a thin wire ring that goes through the mouth and down around the jaw. Those must be harsh.
I'm even hesitant to use shank bits. My favorite bit is the large rubber snaffle. I have really light hands to begin with, but... that's just me.
I can understand the drop-nosebands and the figure eights... but I keep thinking, isn't there a better way? Maybe not a bit at all, but I think hackamores aren't allowed in certain types of shows.

[Silverine]

See, that's weird to me. I know arabians are a hot-blooded type of horse, but whenever I'm around any (especially handling them), it's like a controlled type of 'manic' that they have. They are the one breed I always feel 'safe' around (if one can ever be truly safe around an animal that can injure you with just their size). Maybe it's more my own personality that clicks better with that breed than another breed. I did have the chance to ride one gaited breed...once. It was something that would've taken me getting used to, but like many adults, I too suffer from back issues so a gaited breed may be on my plate for my next horse. That specifically because I've always had trouble riding the canter and it could very well be because of my back. Who knows.
I have heard a bit of that noseband controversy I think. The figure eights and the drop-nosebands, right? I think this is the same one that is connected to the tongues sticking out that force some dressage horses to switch to arena jumpers. It has a habit of peeving me off, so I try to only learn and hear about the basic arguments, instead of learning about every aspect of the arguments.
In my opinion, if you're a professional rider and you're riding a professional horse, then it is your choice of crop, spurs, bits and saddles that really should be the only changes made. I'd really like to see certain things become restricted in top circuits... like martingales for arena jumpers and cross country courses. Or the whole ring bits some thoroughbreds are made to wear for racing. I don't know the name for those ring-bits, but it's really just a thin wire ring that goes through the mouth and down around the jaw. Those must be harsh.
I'm even hesitant to use shank bits. My favorite bit is the large rubber snaffle. I have really light hands to begin with, but... that's just me.
I can understand the drop-nosebands and the figure eights... but I keep thinking, isn't there a better way? Maybe not a bit at all, but I think hackamores aren't allowed in certain types of shows.

That manic is exactly what I don't like. I have enough manic for three people (I suffer from anxiety disorder) so I need a partner than can keep a cool head. Even my normally "dead-headed" horse picks up on the nervousness I exude and becomes, not more spooky, but more sensitive to things he usually wouldn't otherwise notice. So a horse that is already like that gets even more so and it becomes an awful spiral. I'm usually fine in an arena setting but I almost never canter a horse the very first time I ride them because I'm just too nervous. It's not any fault of the horse, it's just the way I am.

It's more than just those specific nosebands, it's overly tight nosebands in general. Even the simple cavesson (traditional english noseband) can be harmful when cranked to its tightest setting. Denmark is starting a new measuring standard that says you need at least 1.5 centimeters between the nasal plate (bony part of the horses nose) and the noseband. It should definitely help.

Twisted wires are also used on barrel racers (and probably other speed horses). A girl at my barn wanted to get into barrel racing and one of the people at the barn where she was doing that (not the trainer but someone else) gave her a twisted wire to put on her horse. That poor horse had never seen anything other than a fat snaffle with a huge hunter D. Girl was about fifteen at the time. I was about twenty-one and me and all of the other girls at the barn told her she shouldn't put that bit on her horse because it looked like a torture device (none of us had ever seen one before and couldn't believe people actually used them). She didn't listen. She put the bit on the bridle and the bridle on her horse and proceeded to beat her horse for tossing her head around. She dragged her out to the ring and tried to get on while the horse was throwing a fit because of the nasty thing that was cutting its tongue and lips up. Our trainer showed up to the barn as the girl was trying to get on. Girl yells at the trainer to hold her horse while she gets on. Trainer is confused - the horse has never acted this way before. She walks over and asks what's up, girl says she got a new bit, trainer looks at the bit and immediately removes the bridle. Tells the girl she won't train her if she insists on using that bit on that horse. Girl proceeded to throw a fit, ran to her mom. Mom backed up the trainer. It's now about four years later, girl still runs barrels on that horse but does it in a simple curb and that horse gives her everything she's got.

I like to ride my horse bridleless if I have the time and a nice calm day. Otherwise it depends on what we're up to. If we're just putzing around (or he's being used by other people for trail rides) he wears a simple eggbutt snaffle with a sweet copper mouthpiece. If we're doing some more intense stuff he wears a wonder bit like this one though his has a thicker mouthpiece and it's copper rather than iron. The wonder bit for me acts like my spurs - it allows much more refined cues and needs much less pressure. I basically never actually pull the reins when he's wearing it - a simple twitch one way or the other and he knows exactly what I'm asking. I find that it makes for a lot less confusion when asking for different complex movements. But I would never let a beginner ride him in that bit.

[BlackOak2]

That manic is exactly what I don't like. I have enough manic for three people (I suffer from anxiety disorder) so I need a partner than can keep a cool head. Even my normally "dead-headed" horse picks up on the nervousness I exude and becomes, not more spooky, but more sensitive to things he usually wouldn't otherwise notice. So a horse that is already like that gets even more so and it becomes an awful spiral. I'm usually fine in an arena setting but I almost never canter a horse the very first time I ride them because I'm just too nervous. It's not any fault of the horse, it's just the way I am.

It's more than just those specific nosebands, it's overly tight nosebands in general. Even the simple cavesson (traditional english noseband) can be harmful when cranked to its tightest setting. Denmark is starting a new measuring standard that says you need at least 1.5 centimeters between the nasal plate (bony part of the horses nose) and the noseband. It should definitely help.

Twisted wires are also used on barrel racers (and probably other speed horses). A girl at my barn wanted to get into barrel racing and one of the people at the barn where she was doing that (not the trainer but someone else) gave her a twisted wire to put on her horse. That poor horse had never seen anything other than a fat snaffle with a huge hunter D. Girl was about fifteen at the time. I was about twenty-one and me and all of the other girls at the barn told her she shouldn't put that bit on her horse because it looked like a torture device (none of us had ever seen one before and couldn't believe people actually used them). She didn't listen. She put the bit on the bridle and the bridle on her horse and proceeded to beat her horse for tossing her head around. She dragged her out to the ring and tried to get on while the horse was throwing a fit because of the nasty thing that was cutting its tongue and lips up. Our trainer showed up to the barn as the girl was trying to get on. Girl yells at the trainer to hold her horse while she gets on. Trainer is confused - the horse has never acted this way before. She walks over and asks what's up, girl says she got a new bit, trainer looks at the bit and immediately removes the bridle. Tells the girl she won't train her if she insists on using that bit on that horse. Girl proceeded to throw a fit, ran to her mom. Mom backed up the trainer. It's now about four years later, girl still runs barrels on that horse but does it in a simple curb and that horse gives her everything she's got.

I like to ride my horse bridleless if I have the time and a nice calm day. Otherwise it depends on what we're up to. If we're just putzing around (or he's being used by other people for trail rides) he wears a simple eggbutt snaffle with a sweet copper mouthpiece. If we're doing some more intense stuff he wears a wonder bit like this one though his has a thicker mouthpiece and it's copper rather than iron. The wonder bit for me acts like my spurs - it allows much more refined cues and needs much less pressure. I basically never actually pull the reins when he's wearing it - a simple twitch one way or the other and he knows exactly what I'm asking. I find that it makes for a lot less confusion when asking for different complex movements. But I would never let a beginner ride him in that bit.

I like that bit, kind of halfway between shank bit and snaffle. I know people think the broken mouthpiece bits are in general harsher (or can be) than the average shank and I can how they think so, but if there's a heavy handed person on that horse, I'd rather have a fat eggbutt snaffle than a fat, low port, short-shank.
I actually didn't hear about the tightened nosebands, but the recent championships I've been watching on the tv... it makes sense. I was wondering if it was just me that those bridles looked a bit tighter this year.
It never really crossed my mind that the noseband could be tightened too much. I guess that's the naivety in me for being stupid. It really makes me wonder what these people are thinking.
I don't have a story like yours (firsthand anyway), but my own teacher (I leased one of her horses at the time), told me about using running reins and the running martingale on this appendix gelding (I was barely out of beginner riding at the time, I had much more experience but just couldn't figure out certain things). This appendix gelding came into her barn with training that taught him to run around like a giraffe. His head was almost literally carried straight up from his shoulders, hollow backed and everything. By the time I started to lease him a couple months later, his head carriage was nominally fixed. Every once in a while, he'd pop his head high up and she got worried that one of these times, he'd accidentally hit me (especially if I was practicing two-point). So she said that she wanted him to lunge with running reins and ride with a running martingale and that (under direction), I'd be the one teaching him this. I make it sound a little dangerous, but he really was just the kind of gentle gelding you could almost completely trust with a baby beginner. Safe, just with a couple idiosyncrasies. She said, 'the first time a horse wears the running reins, it may spook them.' She said she witnessed one where they were put on and strapped up to achieve 'proper' head carriage and the horse spooked, stood up and flipped over backwards. She said martingales can spook a horse in a similar way and she even seen a horse try to go over backwards with a first time experience. Of course the appendix gelding gave the new gear one sideways look and somehow was still able to avoid the running martingale by tucking his chin! I laughed so hard when I saw somebody else riding him... That was about a month before I switched to western and he and I learned together to slow his mind down. That fixed his head carriage permanently.
It really is all in the way you use equipment and introduce it the first time. People that need to use harsh equipment to control their horses... it makes me think every time that they need more training done. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's what enters my mind every time.
I liked it when my teacher told us we could use 'whatever' bridle on the horse we were scheduled to ride. Every time, I went for that rubber snaffle, even when I threw on the western saddle.
The appendix I rode eventually switched to a copper embedded snaffle shank and I have a copper embedded snaffle D for english. He really did like those bits much more than any others. Such an easy horse. He and I made a good pair, well good enough for me to learn on and I suppose I helped as much as he did me.

[Silverine]

I like that bit, kind of halfway between shank bit and snaffle. I know people think the broken mouthpiece bits are in general harsher (or can be) than the average shank and I can how they think so, but if there's a heavy handed person on that horse, I'd rather have a fat eggbutt snaffle than a fat, low port, short-shank.
I actually didn't hear about the tightened nosebands, but the recent championships I've been watching on the tv... it makes sense. I was wondering if it was just me that those bridles looked a bit tighter this year.
It never really crossed my mind that the noseband could be tightened too much. I guess that's the naivety in me for being stupid. It really makes me wonder what these people are thinking.
I don't have a story like yours (firsthand anyway), but my own teacher (I leased one of her horses at the time), told me about using running reins and the running martingale on this appendix gelding (I was barely out of beginner riding at the time, I had much more experience but just couldn't figure out certain things). This appendix gelding came into her barn with training that taught him to run around like a giraffe. His head was almost literally carried straight up from his shoulders, hollow backed and everything. By the time I started to lease him a couple months later, his head carriage was nominally fixed. Every once in a while, he'd pop his head high up and she got worried that one of these times, he'd accidentally hit me (especially if I was practicing two-point). So she said that she wanted him to lunge with running reins and ride with a running martingale and that (under direction), I'd be the one teaching him this. I make it sound a little dangerous, but he really was just the kind of gentle gelding you could almost completely trust with a baby beginner. Safe, just with a couple idiosyncrasies. She said, 'the first time a horse wears the running reins, it may spook them.' She said she witnessed one where they were put on and strapped up to achieve 'proper' head carriage and the horse spooked, stood up and flipped over backwards. She said martingales can spook a horse in a similar way and she even seen a horse try to go over backwards with a first time experience. Of course the appendix gelding gave the new gear one sideways look and somehow was still able to avoid the running martingale by tucking his chin! I laughed so hard when I saw somebody else riding him... That was about a month before I switched to western and he and I learned together to slow his mind down. That fixed his head carriage permanently.
It really is all in the way you use equipment and introduce it the first time. People that need to use harsh equipment to control their horses... it makes me think every time that they need more training done. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's what enters my mind every time.
I liked it when my teacher told us we could use 'whatever' bridle on the horse we were scheduled to ride. Every time, I went for that rubber snaffle, even when I threw on the western saddle.
The appendix I rode eventually switched to a copper embedded snaffle shank and I have a copper embedded snaffle D for english. He really did like those bits much more than any others. Such an easy horse. He and I made a good pair, well good enough for me to learn on and I suppose I helped as much as he did me.

It's especially nice for gaited horses when they're still in conditioning - the little bit of extra leverage gives them something they can lean on to help prop themselves up and carry themselves correctly with a rider. Of course used too much they can become dependent on it for said carriage and so you get the people that think gaited horses will only gait with such bits, which isn't actually true. If you horse gaits in the pasture what makes you think you need a special bit to get him to gait? *sigh*

I've never used a running martingale but many years ago when I met my horse I tried a standing martingale on him. I really never should have done it - being gaited he has a naturally high head carriage, even when carrying himself properly, but as no one at my barn actually knew anything about gaited horses we all thought his head was too high and let's see if the martingale helps. He didn't do anything bad but he clearly didn't like it. I think I tried it maybe twice before figuring out that it was the wrong way to go and actually doing some research. He still has moments where he flings his head up like a giraffe but that's just because he hasn't been in regular work recently and his muscle tone is way down.

And I'm of the mind that any piece of equipment can be detrimental when used improperly, no matter how "innocent" it seems. Halters, lead ropes, hoof picks. Of course some things are a lot harder to use improperly but there are people that will find a way. Not saying I'm perfect by any means, just that it definitely pays to be mindful to what you're doing and how your horse reacts to it.

[Silverine]

Your girl had her first baby from my boy - a zebra dun silver blanket filly:




I'm going to keep this little one around for a bit, see what she throws. Her mother is rebred for the next game year.

And this filly isn't related to those guys, but I wanted to show her off because holy snowflakes, Batman!

[BlackOak2]

Your girl had her first baby from my boy - a zebra dun silver blanket filly:


I'm going to keep this little one around for a bit, see what she throws. Her mother is rebred for the next game year.

And this filly isn't related to those guys, but I wanted to show her off because holy snowflakes, Batman!

That's about as good as she gave me. It may just take a number of tries, she may only have one gene in those areas from her foal pictures. She'll probably always throw agouti and dun. But that filly looks like she'll be one nicely balanced mare. I am a little surprised that she doesn't look like she has much of a roman nose though.

'holy snowflakes batman'? I think you're showing your age their a little! Of course... perhaps so am I that I laughed!
I am growing more partial to those fleabite snowflakes. The larger ones just don't work for me.

Sometimes I just don't understand how certain things came to be. To touch on a somewhat sensitive subject... Tail and ear cropping in dogs. I understand how some of these began as, in some cases it's for the safety and welfare, or to enhance something. But for instance, to inject alcohol (I think), into the tails of quarter horses so their tails hang straight down... that serves no purpose and never did (at least none that I ever heard of). It does make me wonder sometimes what reasons some people get into certain businesses or habits.

[Silverine]

'holy snowflakes batman'? I think you're showing your age their a little! Of course... perhaps so am I that I laughed!
I am growing more partial to those fleabite snowflakes. The larger ones just don't work for me.

Sometimes I just don't understand how certain things came to be. To touch on a somewhat sensitive subject... Tail and ear cropping in dogs. I understand how some of these began as, in some cases it's for the safety and welfare, or to enhance something. But for instance, to inject alcohol (I think), into the tails of quarter horses so their tails hang straight down... that serves no purpose and never did (at least none that I ever heard of). It does make me wonder sometimes what reasons some people get into certain businesses or habits.

More like showing influence of internet memes. Spending too much time of Reddit does things to a person. XD

I don't like tail docking or ear cropping, but the tail docking at least comes from a utilitarian place - the tails were cropped on some hunting dogs to prevent them from getting caught in brush and on Dobermans/Rottweilers and other protection dogs to prevent "undesirables" from having an easy handhold. Ear cropping supposedly allowed dogs to hear better and I will admit that it can prevent some of the ear infections in floppy-eared breeds, but for the most part it was just done to make the dog look scarier. What bothers me more than either of those practices, though, is the declawing of cats.

[BlackOak2]

More like showing influence of internet memes. Spending too much time of Reddit does things to a person. XD

I don't like tail docking or ear cropping, but the tail docking at least comes from a utilitarian place - the tails were cropped on some hunting dogs to prevent them from getting caught in brush and on Dobermans/Rottweilers and other protection dogs to prevent "undesirables" from having an easy handhold. Ear cropping supposedly allowed dogs to hear better and I will admit that it can prevent some of the ear infections in floppy-eared breeds, but for the most part it was just done to make the dog look scarier. What bothers me more than either of those practices, though, is the declawing of cats.

I'm with you there.

[Silverine]

Wanted to share my latest colt with everyone. No progress on new areas, but starting to get more consistent "full" coverage: