Leopard Patterns - Information and open discussion

[BlackOak2]

I found this one, but I'm not sure this is an actual spot, rather this is an area that didn't completely white-out.



It certainly looks like a flake inside of a spot, but the edges aren't quite right all the way around. I actually think this is a larger spot next to a smaller spot with a flake in between, or just a larger spot sitting beside a colored area.

This is the horse: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1447480

[Totina]

I found this one, but I'm not sure this is an actual spot, rather this is an area that didn't completely white-out.



It certainly looks like a flake inside of a spot, but the edges aren't quite right all the way around. I actually think this is a larger spot next to a smaller spot with a flake in between, or just a larger spot sitting beside a colored area.

This is the horse: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1447480

I don't think snowflakes can appear in spots, just like the spots are not affected by varnish. It's the solid coloured areas that will varnish that will be affected by snowflakes and when trying to get rid of all those areas snowflakes will not be visible on the horse even if it carries the highest density genes.

I found a few examples in my own herd of leopards where varnished areas have snowflakes in them.
This horse for example:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1435889

You can see snowflakes in areas that has started to varnish and below is her head where it look like some white spots in coloured spots:


But when looking at an older horse that is fully varnished (with the same pattern on the head) you see that the snowflakes actually stays within the solid coloured areas:

[BlackOak2]

I don't think snowflakes can appear in spots, just like the spots are not affected by varnish. It's the solid coloured areas that will varnish that will be affected by snowflakes and when trying to get rid of all those areas snowflakes will not be visible on the horse even if it carries the highest density genes.

I found a few examples in my own herd of leopards where varnished areas have snowflakes in them.
This horse for example:
You can see snowflakes in areas that has started to varnish and below is her head where it look like some white spots in coloured spots:

But when looking at an older horse that is fully varnished (with the same pattern on the head) you see that the snowflakes actually stays within the solid coloured areas:

Those are great examples. I wonder if it's programmed that way then? Or if the snowflakes just get hidden under the spots? I suppose it doesn't matter either way, really.

But at least we can say (theoretically, at least), 'flakes will not appear on top of spots'.

Or are you saying that it's possibly programmed to only have snowflakes on non-white (and non-spot) areas? If the genes say that they 'should' appear in white areas, they're not hidden because of the white (we just can't see them), but they're hidden like a recessive gene is hidden (not expressed at all)?

There would be no way to test either way.

[Totina]

Those are great examples. I wonder if it's programmed that way then? Or if the snowflakes just get hidden under the spots? I suppose it doesn't matter either way, really.

But at least we can say (theoretically, at least), 'flakes will not appear on top of spots'.

Or are you saying that it's possibly programmed to only have snowflakes on non-white (and non-spot) areas? If the genes say that they 'should' appear in white areas, they're not hidden because of the white (we just can't see them), but they're hidden like a recessive gene is hidden (not expressed at all)?

There would be no way to test either way.

I would say that the appaloosa markings, both the white areas and the coloured spots, are layers on top of whatever colour (with or without snowflakes) that the horse would have if not for the pattern genes. That is probably how it works in the game anyway.
I don't know if snowflakes can affect the coloured spots in real life, but then again, in real life the extreme cases of varnish roan can make a horse appear like a full leopard/few spot even if they were born with just a blanket/snowcap, which doesn't seem to be possible in the game since the varnished areas always stays a bit coloured and never end up completely white.

[BlackOak2]

I have noticed, that when the horses varnish, some will get speckled a bit like fleabitten grays and others will stay almost entirely speckle-less.


From http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1478569 @9.5 years.


From http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1465061 @18 years, 9 months.

I don't think it's directly connected to varnish, both of these horses come from the same line, the second is a grand aunt or something of the first, so they have similar, slightly-slower varnish genes. Well, I know it's connected to varnish, what I mean is, heavy varnish or quick varnish doesn't seem to also mean a heavy speckling.

[BlackOak2]

I'm not sure if we knew this already or not, but it seems that the graying gene overrules the Lp varnish gene. This is not a horse I produced.

[Totina]

I'm not sure if we knew this already or not, but it seems that the graying gene overrules the Lp varnish gene. This is not a horse I produced.

I've known about it for quite some time actually. I used to have some LP arabians when the gene was pretty new to the game and I found out that the greying gene overrides the whole coat, including the white areas (making them less white). My LP arabians were also fleabitten greys, which made it visibly clear that the greying gene overrides the LP pattern. I even wrote a bug report about it since my horses displayed white "fleabites" on a grey coat where they previously had white pattern from LP.

This is one example of the horses I used to have in my herd. The picture is quite small and it might be difficult to see the small white spots on the back. The obvious thing about the picture though is that the greying gene is dominating the coat where the "fleabites" are small "holes" in the greying layer that shows what coat colour the horse would have without the grey.

[BlackOak2]

I've known about it for quite some time actually. I used to have some LP arabians when the gene was pretty new to the game and I found out that the greying gene overrides the whole coat, including the white areas (making them less white). My LP arabians were also fleabitten greys, which made it visibly clear that the greying gene overrides the LP pattern. I even wrote a bug report about it since my horses displayed white "fleabites" on a grey coat where they previously had white pattern from LP.

This is one example of the horses I used to have in my herd. The picture is quite small and it might be difficult to see the small white spots on the back. The obvious thing about the picture though is that the greying gene is dominating the coat where the "fleabites" are small "holes" in the greying layer that shows what coat colour the horse would have without the grey.

I'm not sure you picked up on what I wanted to convey. I know that the graying gene overrides all the Lp, which I agree is a bug. What I wanted to say is that with the graying gene, the horse doesn't varnish from Leopard complex. Or at least the horse I picked up from the market as a grinder wasn't varnishing like I expected it to, before the graying gene really took control.

[Totina]

I'm not sure you picked up on what I wanted to convey. I know that the graying gene overrides all the Lp, which I agree is a bug. What I wanted to say is that with the graying gene, the horse doesn't varnish from Leopard complex. Or at least the horse I picked up from the market as a grinder wasn't varnishing like I expected it to, before the graying gene really took control.

Oh, I misunderstood your point completely. Sorry about that! I see what you mean now and I took a closer look into my own herd history and it looks like the varnish effect is replaced by the greying process. That is quite interesting.

[BlackOak2]

Oh, I misunderstood your point completely. Sorry about that! I see what you mean now and I took a closer look into my own herd history and it looks like the varnish effect is replaced by the greying process. That is quite interesting.

It is very interesting, and no problem, sometimes when I type something out, I don't use appropriate wording, so I understand as well, I should've been a little more specific.
I do wonder of it's like a mistake or something on those two genes sharing the same layer of the color process that's interfering with it? Like you can't have one if you have the other. Rather, however I think it's an overlook in the graying gene write-up. As in - 'take over everything', but not writing in the 'but don't take over 'this and this'. I think that might require a lot more programming.

His newborn picture looked a little odd as well. I didn't realize he was graying until he was 6 months with the goggles.



He's just a little odd, pretty, but odd.