Conformation and the Breeder's Report

[Amber]

Well then! Let's be two friendly scientific theorists with sometimes compatible and sometimes opposing views, based on our own diligent research and experience. And with different but equally stringent standards for our horses. I think that's respectful.

One comment to add in the edit:

2, again) Obviously, but as Larissa stated, green is achieved at a very low threshold. If your horse has high conformation and is green, it is likely that it has poor hidden genes and is being propped up with its conformation, whereas a horse with low conformation and green has high enough hidden genes to overcome its poor conformation. Thus, keeping horses with high conformation greens likely means keeping horses with mediocre hidden genes, which doesn't help your breeding program.

I get you. But I'm going to quote Larissa here:
"The final value for each stat is then reported in the Breeders Report. The specific sentence is chosen based on a small range of possible sentences close to the stat value. So two horses with the exact same stat value won't end up with the exact same chosen sentence...

"Conformation Evaluation values represent the conformation portion of the Breeders Report. So if your horse has a great breeders report comment, and a poor conformation value, you can guess that the horse must then have very high natural genes to overcome the poor conformation and still end up with a great comment. However if the horse has poor natural genes then even a high conformation value won't help him because conformation doesn't actually ADD anything to the stat value. It can only subtract from the value. However these high conformation values can still be passed on to their foals."

You're assuming "stat value" means invisible base gene. I'm assuming it means "final stat value interpreted by Breeders' Report" because of how "stat value" was used in the first sentence. ie. a high conformation score won't pull up a bad invisible gene in the breeders' report, but a -15 conf horse can still be green if they have great genes.

I'm happy to be wrong, but in any case it doesn't matter because my horses started with high speed stats to begin with, before I began working on conformation. I don't think this is a bad approach - I think your approach is a good one actually - and I wouldn't recommend anyone work on conformation and ignore breeder's reports!

So I still stand by everything I said before. But I'm happy for everyone to have their own theories - nothing here is obvious. But this does keep the game interesting, I think! I wish you success with your horses.

Cheerio!

[Argent II]

Except I'm not assuming anything because I've discussed this with Larissa herself.

And you're also incorrect about what you think I'm assuming....

[QuesthavenFarms]

Okay this is just have two honest questions and I hope it is taken that way. I am confused and still learning.

1)How are genes and confirmation separate? Isn't confirmation results of genes? How can they be separate?

2) I know this question was asked before and I never saw an answer. Do we want high or low scores on confirmation? I assumed high was better. I am I wrong?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Argent II]

1. They aren't? There are genes that determine conformation. There are also genes that determine genetic potential.

2. Both. Quality breeders' reports with low conformation is a sign of a quality horse. Great breeders' reports comments with high conformation means a higher possibility of the horse being mediocre/modest (by absolute standards...) but you won't really know that until you get more familiar with the upper end comments for the stat you're breeding for. If you go with low confo and good BR first, you can be sure that you're actually breeding good horses, whereas if you start with high confo and good BR, there's more of a chance that you're really breeding duds.

[Rapori]

Thanks for all the insight. This was very informative.

I'd also just like to point out that what may be easy for some to figure out, because they are willing and able to spend countless hours a day on an online game, is not so for others.

Asking for a little push in the right direction is not equivalent to being spoon fed. It also seems it would be much easier to figure out if you have the owner whispering in your ear through the process. Many of us don't have that.

Now that I have an idea of how conformation relates to breeder report, I'm looking forward to putting theory into practice. It should be fun.

[QuesthavenFarms]

2. Both. Quality breeders' reports with low conformation is a sign of a quality horse. Great breeders' reports comments with high conformation means a higher possibility of the horse being mediocre/modest (by absolute standards...) but you won't really know that until you get more familiar with the upper end comments for the stat you're breeding for. If you go with low confo and good BR first, you can be sure that you're actually breeding good horses, whereas if you start with high confo and good BR, there's more of a chance that you're really breeding duds.

So a positive number for confirmation is bad? I find this really confusing. Using Amber's horse as an example (which was really helpful), the +20 speed is not good? So what is good? Not a negative, right? A zero? honestly I am confused by this feature as I thought green traits were good (going by the use of green in the breeder report.)

feeling lost...

[Argent II]

So a positive number for confirmation is bad?

That's definitely not what I said.

2. Both. Quality breeders' reports with low conformation is a sign of a quality horse. Great breeders' reports comments with high conformation means a higher possibility of the horse being mediocre/modest (by absolute standards...) but you won't really know that until you get more familiar with the upper end comments for the stat you're breeding for. If you go with low confo and good BR first, you can be sure that you're actually breeding good horses, whereas if you start with high confo and good BR, there's more of a chance that you're really breeding duds.

Using Amber's horse as an example (which was really helpful), the +20 speed is not good? So what is good? Not a negative, right? A zero? honestly I am confused by this feature as I thought green traits were good (going by the use of green in the breeder report.)

feeling lost...

Green traits are good, but the question is how good. 65% is all it take to get a green. 65% is literally a passing grade, to use an academics metaphor. You get credit, but you still did really poorly.

Thanks for all the insight. This was very informative.

I'd also just like to point out that what may be easy for some to figure out, because they are willing and able to spend countless hours a day on an online game, is not so for others.

Asking for a little push in the right direction is not equivalent to being spoon fed. It also seems it would be much easier to figure out if you have the owner whispering in your ear through the process. Many of us don't have that.

Now that I have an idea of how conformation relates to breeder report, I'm looking forward to putting theory into practice. It should be fun.

Larissa does not whisper in my ear. She's much to busy for that. Occasionally, after spending countless hours working on trying to figure out how the game works, I present my theories to her when she's having some down time in chat, and she confirms or denies them. She literally invited me to test this game two years ago specifically because I was willing to spend hours breaking and reporting things to her, so I have the benefit of decent enough rapport with her that she tolerates my questioning.

I gave several pushes in the right direction with previous comments. I started shutting down and snapping at people when they wouldn't keep their questions to the appropriate places. I'm more than happy to confirm and correct theories, but sitting around waiting for answers annoys me.

[QuesthavenFarms]

I am asking about confirmation not the breeder's report. You say "low conformation is a sign of a quality horse". What then do you mean by low confirmation? I would think a higher number in confirmation would give you a better body for that desired activity i.e. a high speed score would be a horse built for speed.

[Argent II]

Wow wow wow. No. Not what I said. Read the entire sentence.

Quality breeders' reports with low conformation is a sign of a quality horse.

And even that is only within comparison to the same comment on a horse with higher conformation. Take this stallion: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/240205

Has green speed, like Amber's stallion. But is likely much better because he attained green speed with +3 conformation rather than +20 conformation. But he's still probably not as good as the horses I had who attained green speed with -15 or -10 speed conformation.

[Amber]

2. Both. Quality breeders' reports with low conformation is a sign of a quality horse. Great breeders' reports comments with high conformation means a higher possibility of the horse being mediocre/modest (by absolute standards...) but you won't really know that until you get more familiar with the upper end comments for the stat you're breeding for. If you go with low confo and good BR first, you can be sure that you're actually breeding good horses, whereas if you start with high confo and good BR, there's more of a chance that you're really breeding duds.

I am asking about confirmation not the breeder's report. You say "low conformation is a sign of a quality horse". What then do you mean by low confirmation? I would think a higher number in confirmation would give you a better body for that desired activity i.e. a high speed score would be a horse built for speed.

Argent means low conformation and a green stat means your horse has superior base genes. This is true.

However, a low conformation horse with a green stat (that is secretly a score of base gene 100% + modifiers) will always do worse than a high conformation horse with a green stat (that is secretly a score of base gene 100% + modifiers). The secret score is unknown so Argent uses bad conformation to try and weed it out first.

I don't particularly agree with this method, but I respect it.

I still stand by everything I said in my original post, although the interpretation of "stat value" above I can see going both ways. I have no idea what information Larissa gave Argent, but I think we might need her to clear this up.

But in any case: I'll do everything I can do help anyone in any way I can for as long as I play. I want us all to do well!