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Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby Gaagii » June 1st, 2019, 9:36 pm

^ Okay good information.

Not plume but gotta be one of the "whitest" flaxen I've produced so far. Bred to that pseudo black-bay that caught BlackOak2's eye on page 2 to see if can get "black" body & "white/silver" points (mane, fetlocks, tail).
Image
Image
Image

Normal pale flaxen (below)
Image
Image
Image

They are nearly exact, including age (4 & 3 respectfully).




And
Image
Image

Sire (leopard x plume) x Dame (plume x plume). I've bought a few spots varnish for more potential. Sire's below
Image 3 years
Image 5 3/4ths years





Also seemingly "plume" AC horses.
Image
Image
On my screen this Forest Horse looks like she has plume but bred to plume horses no foals show plume.
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby Gaagii » June 1st, 2019, 10:59 pm

Summary Of Sorts


Plume currently affects

Bay with/without dun or pangare
Adding a silvering to mane, tail & fetlocks. The intensity of which may be associated with the silvered fetlocks as horses without fetlocks predominantly lack the tail 'carryover'.
Though BlackOak2 mentions here it seems to follow a similar pattern as dun it seems to be independent of dun.
Dun colors the fetlocks from the back of the leg forward.
Flaxen comes up from the hoof.
Pangare reaches downward from the upper leg.
The plume gene appears to act much more like dun, silvering the fetlock from the back forward.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17929





Flaxen in Chestnut & Red Dun
It seems that there is an underlying flaxen in this somewhere as flaxen chestnut/flaxen red dun does show up on occasion.
These horses range:
Image
Image

The thing about this flaxen is it appears to be recessive to plume. Just a quick study.
Image Dame
Image Foal
Image Foal
Image Foal
Not one of these three foals had a flaxen foal themselves.


Flaxen red dun reproduced itself at least once
Image Sire
Image Foal
Image Foal
Image Foal
Image Foal
ImageFoal
None of these foals have been bred so can't test it further

Note that crossing with AC chestnuts throws flaxen and non flaxen foals.



Secondaries

Pangare - Yes. Note pangare can extend quite far (see AC Belgians & Przewalskis) so am wondering if plume would interact more than the dun it resembles.

Dun - Yes

Leopard / Varnish - Potential Option

Sooty/Progressive Darkening - Yes. Note sooty also appears to affect the mane to some degree as show below.
Image 3 years
Image 20 years
&
Image 4 years
Image 2o years


Flukes - originally stated this was a recessive gene, however, have noticed at least one stud that fathers non-plume from plume mares (and he's plume).
Image
Image


To Dos

Black - Unknown
Brown - Unknown
Creme - Potential Option
Feathers - Unknown
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby BlackOak2 » June 2nd, 2019, 11:32 am

Silverine wrote:
Varnish actually CAN affect horses before they completely blow their foal coat. Here's a filly, currently nine months old, already showing varnish:



I do remember that it can... I did say 'generally'. :D

But making note of it again, I'm sure is worth it, rare or not, Lp has some unique expressions.

*****

I'll also have to revise what I've been describing as flaxen 'flaxen is cream in color, whereas silver is white or silver in color'... extreme expressions of flaxen do appear to loose all of their cream-style shading.

Again, I have nothing additional to add.
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby Gaagii » June 3rd, 2019, 7:24 am

Well it works on roan
Image


As for what it does with leopard/varnish
1.5 years old he's got an obvious plume
Image
Image

5 years
Image
Image
That mane/tail change isn't plume related.
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby BlackOak2 » June 3rd, 2019, 12:57 pm

Gaagii wrote:

As for what it does with leopard/varnish


The mane and tail on an Lp carrier will turn silver, pretty quickly from the varnish. But it does look perhaps a bit different, with the plume bleaching the very base of the mane (maybe it's just my desire to see it after the Lp varnish though).

That is certainly quite a sharp-looking snowflaked buckskin! It reminds me a LOT of the chariot horses depicted in roman artwork.
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby Gaagii » June 13th, 2019, 5:49 am

Update:


Leopard/Varnish
This is present in Romping Ace & leopard offspring like Digital Blanket, Onyx Phantom & others
Image Romping Ace @ 1.5 years
Image @ 7 years
Image Ace @ 10 years


&
Image Digital @ 1.7 years
Image @ 3 years

&
Image Onyx @ 1 year
Image Onyx @ 3 years

.
.
Chestnut
It actually doesn't appear to be directly associated with actual chestnut despite the presence of "flaxen chestnuts" that pop up.

Below AC chestnut x plume
Image

(AC chestnut x plume) x plume also equals chestnut
Image

Or
(AC chestnut x plume) x plume results in bay plume horses not chestnut.
Image
&
Image

.
.
Pangare/Mealy Bay
It was noted earlier that pangare shows up but the pangare was pale. Further work indicates that the pangare and 'silver fetlocks' seem to compliment one another rather than work against one another as visible in horses like Colorful Bar.
Image
Image

.
.
Roan
The presence of plume, as expected, does nothing to (bay) roan as visible on horses like Earthly Stardust & Spicy Idol
Image Stardust
&
Image Idol
Image

.
.
Dilutes
It works on (bay) dilutes as visible in Moonlight
Image
Image

.
.
Blacks
Unless proven otherwise will say that it doesn't work on black. Below is the result of couple generations black.

Black x Black foal
Image

Black x Plume foals
Image
Image
Image
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby BlackOak2 » June 13th, 2019, 11:49 am

It may be worth noting, that the plume in Lp, after time passes, does look like it might be directly (or indirectly) affected by Lp varnish. What I mean is, where the mane and tail on Lp horses turn silver, the plume-affected area of both do appear to be slowly turning black. It's beginning to appear on Romping Ace. When looking at each of his images, it's obvious that there's something going on.

I don't see it on the other two, but they're still a bit young. It seems Romping Ace is only just now starting to show it at 10.

I might have to make a plume line for myself and turn them into charioteer horses! :D Hehe!

Thank You for the update, these are Gorgeous! And of course, very useful information.
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby Gaagii » June 14th, 2019, 5:34 pm

BlackOak2 wrote:It may be worth noting, that the plume in Lp, after time passes, does look like it might be directly (or indirectly) affected by Lp varnish. What I mean is, where the mane and tail on Lp horses turn silver, the plume-affected area of both do appear to be slowly turning black. It's beginning to appear on Romping Ace. When looking at each of his images, it's obvious that there's something going on.

I don't see it on the other two, but they're still a bit young. It seems Romping Ace is only just now starting to show it at 10.

I might have to make a plume line for myself and turn them into charioteer horses! :D Hehe!


I noticed that too. Will have to wait & see if it's typical to the others. I'll be making the plume public soon btw
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby BlackOak2 » June 14th, 2019, 5:45 pm

Gaagii wrote:
BlackOak2 wrote:It may be worth noting, that the plume in Lp, after time passes, does look like it might be directly (or indirectly) affected by Lp varnish. What I mean is, where the mane and tail on Lp horses turn silver, the plume-affected area of both do appear to be slowly turning black. It's beginning to appear on Romping Ace. When looking at each of his images, it's obvious that there's something going on.

I don't see it on the other two, but they're still a bit young. It seems Romping Ace is only just now starting to show it at 10.

I might have to make a plume line for myself and turn them into charioteer horses! :D Hehe!


I noticed that too. Will have to wait & see if it's typical to the others. I'll be making the plume public soon btw


Wonderful!
I think I want to add it in to my competition line first... I'll be swimming in plumes by the end of this. :D
I feel so green :mrgreen: it's that warm, fuzzy feeling. hehe!
I'm thinking... that I might turn that competition line into the roman chariot horse lookalike line...

It may be typical; Lp varnish does some really strange things and swapping colors, like a negative image on a photo seems to be a regular affect for varnish, so it doesn't surprise me. I think that was a direct question we had though. Have to watch those silver legs for a similar change.
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Re: Color Study ('plume' mane - odd pale/two-toned manes)

Postby Gaagii » June 14th, 2019, 10:52 pm

BlackOak2 wrote:...


Btw about the silver fetlocks & feathers:
Image
Image
Image

The feathers are, in a way, coming out silver.


Dame for comparison
Image
Image
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