Need help with color as well as foal possibility

[EquinoxMoon]

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2478840

[horse=]https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2478840[/horse]

ƏM Safflower


Hopefully one of these works.
If anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate if anyone knows the color of my horse here, I would guess she is some sort of Sooty Buckskin Tobiano?
And second, how would I breed to get a similar coat? I don't mind breeding to other Studs however they must be 0% COI. I'm at a bit of a loss here.

Thank you in advance!

[EquinoxMoon]

Omg! What happeneded?! I was trying to use the new horse code to post the picture.. the listed foal is not mine, the above working link IS. That's bizarre.

[Tjigra]

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2478840

Hopefully one of these works.
If anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate if anyone knows the color of my horse here, I would guess she is some sort of Sooty Buckskin Tobiano?
And second, how would I breed to get a similar coat? I don't mind breeding to other Studs however they must be 0% COI. I'm at a bit of a loss here.

Thank you in advance!

The first one worked just fine.
She looks to be a Sooty Silver Buckskin Tobiano.
There is no guaranteed way to breed one just like her, as buckskins don't always breed true to type (just like all cream affected colours do). If you breed her to another one like her, you'd have 50% chance of another buckskin, 25% chance of perlino and 25% chance of plain bay (if we don't count in the possibilities of other genes, like hidden red). If you breed her to a bay, you'd have a 50/50 chance of buckskin and bay. If the sire also has sooty, silver and tobiano, it helps to increase the chance of passing these genes onto the foal, but are not actually necessary, as only one copy of those are needed to show. So your best bet is to find a sooty, silver, tobiano bay or buckskin with only bay based parents and grandparents, and to keep your fingers crossed
The stallion she's currently bred to might do the trick, if the foal gets at least one dominant extension gene (E, or black), one Agouti (to make it bay based), one silver, one tobiano, one sooty and exactly one cream, and skips getting champagne from sire (I am no expert on champagne colours, but I'd say the stallion is silver buckskin with champagne, and not palomino). All of the needed genes can be inherited from either parent, including cream.

[Silverine]

Omg! What happeneded?! I was trying to use the new horse code to post the picture.. the listed foal is not mine, the above working link IS. That's bizarre.

To use the horse code, replace the "1234" in the code with your horse's ID number. In your case, this horse's ID is 2478840 (the string of numbers at the end of the URL) so its code would look like this:

Code: Select all

[horse=2478840]Name here[/horse]

On to color:

You were very close! Your horse is actually a Silver Sooty Buckskin Tobiano. You can see the silver in her mane and tail, and in how her legs are chocolaty rather than true black.

There are a couple of ways you can breed a similar horse.

First, if using her to breed a similar color, breed her to a similarly marked bay, buckskin, or perlino (preferably with silver). In any of those cases there is a 50% chance of a buckskin foal. If you breed to a bay the other 50% would be a bay foal. If you breed to a perlino the other 50% would be a perlino foal. If you breed to a buckskin 25% would be bay and 25% would be perlino.

If you want to guarantee a buckskin foal you would need to breed a bay to a perlino.

[EquinoxMoon]

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2478840

Hopefully one of these works.
If anyone can help, I would greatly appreciate if anyone knows the color of my horse here, I would guess she is some sort of Sooty Buckskin Tobiano?
And second, how would I breed to get a similar coat? I don't mind breeding to other Studs however they must be 0% COI. I'm at a bit of a loss here.

Thank you in advance!

The first one worked just fine.
She looks to be a Sooty Silver Buckskin Tobiano.
There is no guaranteed way to breed one just like her, as buckskins don't always breed true to type (just like all cream affected colours do). If you breed her to another one like her, you'd have 50% chance of another buckskin, 25% chance of perlino and 25% chance of plain bay (if we don't count in the possibilities of other genes, like hidden red). If you breed her to a bay, you'd have a 50/50 chance of buckskin and bay. If the sire also has sooty, silver and tobiano, it helps to increase the chance of passing these genes onto the foal, but are not actually necessary, as only one copy of those are needed to show. So your best bet is to find a sooty, silver, tobiano bay or buckskin with only bay based parents and grandparents, and to keep your fingers crossed
The stallion she's currently bred to might do the trick, if the foal gets at least one dominant extension gene (E, or black), one Agouti (to make it bay based), one silver, one tobiano, one sooty and exactly one cream, and skips getting champagne from sire (I am no expert on champagne colours, but I'd say the stallion is silver buckskin with champagne, and not palomino). All of the needed genes can be inherited from either parent, including cream.

Thank you so much for your help! How would I know if the parents or grandparents are "bay based"? Does it mean like a Tobiano or a Sooty but with bay showing underneath?

[EquinoxMoon]

Omg! What happeneded?! I was trying to use the new horse code to post the picture.. the listed foal is not mine, the above working link IS. That's bizarre.

To use the horse code, replace the "1234" in the code with your horse's ID number. In your case, this horse's ID is 2478840 (the string of numbers at the end of the URL) so its code would look like this:

Code: Select all

[horse=2478840]Name here[/horse]

On to color:

You were very close! Your horse is actually a Silver Sooty Buckskin Tobiano. You can see the silver in her mane and tail, and in how her legs are chocolaty rather than true black.

There are a couple of ways you can breed a similar horse.

First, if using her to breed a similar color, breed her to a similarly marked bay, buckskin, or perlino (preferably with silver). In any of those cases there is a 50% chance of a buckskin foal. If you breed to a bay the other 50% would be a bay foal. If you breed to a perlino the other 50% would be a perlino foal. If you breed to a buckskin 25% would be bay and 25% would be perlino.

If you want to guarantee a buckskin foal you would need to breed a bay to a perlino.

Thank you so much! I'll have to try the code, it's been really confusing for me.

ƏM Safflower


Fingers crossed! Lol

Mostly, I'd like to recreate the Sooty, however I think it looks exceptional over Buckskin. I recently had a very Sooty (Bay?) that passed on before I could breed something remotely similar, despite my many tries. I really loved her aesthetics, her conformation/build and coat/markings. I don't know why I seem to get better coats out of first gen/first gen X AC horse rather than later generations.

So the Bucksin is not necessary but would be a plus. If I can transfer the Sooty, especially the "type" she has (as it seems there are Sooty types), and preferably some unusual markings, I would be happy with it. Unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll have much time to breed too many more out of her, as she's aging quickly. It's crazy how quick they seem to age when you start to have a bigger herd!

[Silverine]

Thank you so much for your help! How would I know if the parents or grandparents are "bay based"? Does it mean like a Tobiano or a Sooty but with bay showing underneath?

"Bay-based" means a horse that is bay, buckskin, perlino, buckskin pearl, or bay pearl underneath any other genes it may have (gray, roan, sooty, tobiano, lp, etc.). There are four different bases: red/chestnut, and black divided into bay, brown, and black.

Whether a horse is red-based or black-based is determined by its Extension (or Recessive Red) gene. This locus is designated using the capital 'E' for the dominant allele and the lower-case 'e' for the recessive allele. A horse that has at least one 'E' will be black-based while a horse that is homozygous for (has two copies of) 'e' will be red-based.

So a horse that is E/E or E/e is black-based while a horse that is e/e is red-based.

If a horse is black-based, you look to the Agouti gene to figure out if it is bay, brown, or black. The HWO agouti model is based on a theorized real-life model that uses four different agouti alleles. Those alleles are 'A⁺' for wild bay, 'A' for bay, 'A^t' for brown, and 'a' for black. Wild bay is dominant to all other variations, bay is dominant to brown and black, and brown is dominant to black.

Agouti options:
A horse A⁺/A⁺, A⁺/A, A⁺/A^t, or A⁺/a will be wild bay-based.
A horse that is A/A, A/A^t, or A/a will be bay-based.
A horse that is A^t/A^t or A^t/a will be brown-based.
A horse that is a/a will be black-based.

An important thing to remember is that the extension gene "covers up" the agouti gene. So a horse that is e/e will be red-based no matter what it has at its agouti gene.

Red-based horses will be chestnut, palomino, cremello, palomino pearl, or apricot under any other modifiers.
Wild bay- and bay-based horses will be bay, buckskin, perlino, buckskin pearl, or bay pearl under any other modifiers.
Brown-based horses will be brown, smoky brown, brown cream, smoky brown pearl, or brown pearl under any other modifiers.
Black-based horses will be black, smoky black, smoky cream, smoky black pearl, or black pearl under any other modifiers.

Mostly, I'd like to recreate the Sooty, however I think it looks exceptional over Buckskin. I recently had a very Sooty (Bay?) that passed on before I could breed something remotely similar, despite my many tries. I really loved her aesthetics, her conformation/build and coat/markings. I don't know why I seem to get better coats out of first gen/first gen X AC horse rather than later generations.

So the Bucksin is not necessary but would be a plus. If I can transfer the Sooty, especially the "type" she has (as it seems there are Sooty types), and preferably some unusual markings, I would be happy with it. Unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll have much time to breed too many more out of her, as she's aging quickly. It's crazy how quick they seem to age when you start to have a bigger herd!

One important thing to remember when breeding sooty is that it won't show up as a foal. Some sooty won't be visible until a horse is in their teens. I've been breeding extreme sooty into my Kentucky Mountain Saddle Horses. Here is the progression of one of them:

Newborn	Yearling	4 Years

And here is a second horse with much lighter sooty. His didn't appear until he was in his teens. It's along his shoulder and the base of his neck.

Newborn	Yearling	14 Years

(All images can be dragged to the address bar to view full-size.)

So don't let foal coat fool you. The baby needs to grow up before you know how much sooty it will or won't end up showing.

Your best bet to throw the sooty from your mare would be to find a stallion with a similar expression and breed to him. At the very least, find a stallion that has some kind of sooty. If you breed to one that doesn't show sooty you risk two things:
1. The baby not having sooty.
2. The stallion throwing a completely different form of sooty than you're expecting. Even horses that don't show sooty have hidden genes governing how the sooty would express itself if they did have it. A common variant is 'top-down' sooty, though you might also run into dappled sooty among other things.