Just need to be sure about this

[Veterinarian]

I am getting really confused with theses colours :




Alright, so let's begin with ℳℐ Golden Tea (the first one).
The genes that I see when I look at him is the silver gene, the dun gene and the Champagne gene.

Silver is not visible on Chestnuts and I do not see dark legs or muzzle so bay is out of the picture, I also do not see any signs of him being brown on his belly and muzzle.
So I am 100% sure that he is on black. (He actually should be an E/E based on his pedigree and progeny)

The Champagne gene is definitely there, we can clearly see the freckles. I do not think he carries the cream gene, but I could be wrong, both parents carry the cream gene and his coat colour seams to be a bit on the paler side. When cream is paired with Champagne the eyes are usually dark but unfortunately this horse also has 1 copy of the tiger eye gene.

1 copy of the tiger eye gene is visible if the horse is a double cream so I thought that I could figure out wether he is a cream carrier or not by that but unfortunately 1 copy of the tiger eye gene is also visible when the Champagne gene is present, so there goes that.

So my final answer is Silver Dun Classic Champagne (Z/?, Dn/?, Ch/? on black) but maybe, just maybe, he is a Silver Dun Classic Cream (Z/?, Dn/?, Cr/cr, Ch/? on black) ?

Then we have his offspring ℳℐ Light Phoenix (the second horse) and this one looks exactly like his dam. Since he looks exactly like his dam I will not be able to get help from his parents because I do not know what colour the dam is. So I moved to the dam to figure out what both hers and her foal's coat colour is since it is the same.

Dam

ℳℐ Light Phoenix

Now if we take a look at the mare's pedigree we will see that she again comes from ℳℐ Golden Tea, who my final answer was that he is a Silver Dun Classic Champagne and from ℳℐ Icy Spur who is a Silver Amber Champagne.

So there is no Cream genes on the parents. We can clearly see the Champagne gene and the silver gene though I am not 100% certain about that.

The dam, is a black based horse and not a bay like her dam, ℳℐ Icy Spur.

So she has the Champagne and no cream gene since both parents are cr/cr. I am not sure if she has the dun gene since she has aged and the gallery picture is not a high quality one.

So that means that the dam should of looked like the sire but she does not. My first guess was, alright, maybe she does not have the silver gene after all.

But that is definitely not what a Classic Champagne looks like.

My second guess was that maybe both parents are actually E/e and this one is a Chestnut. But again that is not what a Gold Champagne looks like. So then I thought that maybe she does carry the silver gene but the silver gene is not visible on Chestnut so we would not see any colour difference.

That means that there is a cream gene there right?

But if there was one, the only potential carrier from her parents would be the sire and that he actually is a Silver Dun Classic Cream (Z/?, Dn/?, Cr/cr, Ch/? on black) but that means that the dam should look like her sire, ℳℐ Golden Tea but she does not.

Well maybe she does not have the silver gene but a classic cream does not look like that that is for sure. Maybe she is a Chestnut? So she is a Gold Cream? But Gold creams (Ch/? And Cr/cr on Chestnut) have lighter manes.

I really do not know lol

maybe you can help?

[Elaina Brewster]

I am getting really confused with theses colours :




Alright, so let's begin with ℳℐ Golden Tea (the first one).
The genes that I see when I look at him is the silver gene, the dun gene and the Champagne gene.

Silver is not visible on Chestnuts and I do not see dark legs or muzzle so bay is out of the picture, I also do not see any signs of him being brown on his belly and muzzle.
So I am 100% sure that he is on black. (He actually should be an E/E based on his pedigree and progeny)

The Champagne gene is definitely there, we can clearly see the freckles. I do not think he carries the cream gene, but I could be wrong, both parents carry the cream gene and his coat colour seams to be a bit on the paler side. When cream is paired with Champagne the eyes are usually dark but unfortunately this horse also has 1 copy of the tiger eye gene.

1 copy of the tiger eye gene is visible if the horse is a double cream so I thought that I could figure out wether he is a cream carrier or not by that but unfortunately 1 copy of the tiger eye gene is also visible when the Champagne gene is present, so there goes that.

So my final answer is Silver Dun Classic Champagne (Z/?, Dn/?, Ch/? on black) but maybe, just maybe, he is a Silver Dun Classic Cream (Z/?, Dn/?, Cr/cr, Ch/? on black) ?

Then we have his offspring ℳℐ Light Phoenix (the second horse) and this one looks exactly like his dam. Since he looks exactly like his dam I will not be able to get help from his parents because I do not know what colour the dam is. So I moved to the dam to figure out what both hers and her foal's coat colour is since it is the same.

Dam

ℳℐ Light Phoenix

Now if we take a look at the mare's pedigree we will see that she again comes from ℳℐ Golden Tea, who my final answer was that he is a Silver Dun Classic Champagne and from ℳℐ Icy Spur who is a Silver Amber Champagne.

So there is no Cream genes on the parents. We can clearly see the Champagne gene and the silver gene though I am not 100% certain about that.

The dam, is a black based horse and not a bay like her dam, ℳℐ Icy Spur.

So she has the Champagne and no cream gene since both parents are cr/cr. I am not sure if she has the dun gene since she has aged and the gallery picture is not a high quality one.

So that means that the dam should of looked like the sire but she does not. My first guess was, alright, maybe she does not have the silver gene after all.

But that is definitely not what a Classic Champagne looks like.

My second guess was that maybe both parents are actually E/e and this one is a Chestnut. But again that is not what a Gold Champagne looks like. So then I thought that maybe she does carry the silver gene but the silver gene is not visible on Chestnut so we would not see any colour difference.

That means that there is a cream gene there right?

But if there was one, the only potential carrier from her parents would be the sire and that he actually is a Silver Dun Classic Cream (Z/?, Dn/?, Cr/cr, Ch/? on black) but that means that the dam should look like her sire, ℳℐ Golden Tea but she does not.

Well maybe she does not have the silver gene but a classic cream does not look like that that is for sure. Maybe she is a Chestnut? So she is a Gold Cream? But Gold creams (Ch/? And Cr/cr on Chestnut) have lighter manes.

I really do not know lol

maybe you can help?

So, these guys have prominent speckling on their muzzles

So, they have either just champagne (if cream was present there would be lighter freckles) or Double Pearl with Champagne, I'd have to go back in the pedigree more, but I suspect Silver is is involved

[Veterinarian]

I am getting really confused with theses colours :




Alright, so let's begin with ℳℐ Golden Tea (the first one).
The genes that I see when I look at him is the silver gene, the dun gene and the Champagne gene.

Silver is not visible on Chestnuts and I do not see dark legs or muzzle so bay is out of the picture, I also do not see any signs of him being brown on his belly and muzzle.
So I am 100% sure that he is on black. (He actually should be an E/E based on his pedigree and progeny)

The Champagne gene is definitely there, we can clearly see the freckles. I do not think he carries the cream gene, but I could be wrong, both parents carry the cream gene and his coat colour seams to be a bit on the paler side. When cream is paired with Champagne the eyes are usually dark but unfortunately this horse also has 1 copy of the tiger eye gene.

1 copy of the tiger eye gene is visible if the horse is a double cream so I thought that I could figure out wether he is a cream carrier or not by that but unfortunately 1 copy of the tiger eye gene is also visible when the Champagne gene is present, so there goes that.

So my final answer is Silver Dun Classic Champagne (Z/?, Dn/?, Ch/? on black) but maybe, just maybe, he is a Silver Dun Classic Cream (Z/?, Dn/?, Cr/cr, Ch/? on black) ?

Then we have his offspring ℳℐ Light Phoenix (the second horse) and this one looks exactly like his dam. Since he looks exactly like his dam I will not be able to get help from his parents because I do not know what colour the dam is. So I moved to the dam to figure out what both hers and her foal's coat colour is since it is the same.

Dam

ℳℐ Light Phoenix

Now if we take a look at the mare's pedigree we will see that she again comes from ℳℐ Golden Tea, who my final answer was that he is a Silver Dun Classic Champagne and from ℳℐ Icy Spur who is a Silver Amber Champagne.

So there is no Cream genes on the parents. We can clearly see the Champagne gene and the silver gene though I am not 100% certain about that.

The dam, is a black based horse and not a bay like her dam, ℳℐ Icy Spur.

So she has the Champagne and no cream gene since both parents are cr/cr. I am not sure if she has the dun gene since she has aged and the gallery picture is not a high quality one.

So that means that the dam should of looked like the sire but she does not. My first guess was, alright, maybe she does not have the silver gene after all.

But that is definitely not what a Classic Champagne looks like.

My second guess was that maybe both parents are actually E/e and this one is a Chestnut. But again that is not what a Gold Champagne looks like. So then I thought that maybe she does carry the silver gene but the silver gene is not visible on Chestnut so we would not see any colour difference.

That means that there is a cream gene there right?

But if there was one, the only potential carrier from her parents would be the sire and that he actually is a Silver Dun Classic Cream (Z/?, Dn/?, Cr/cr, Ch/? on black) but that means that the dam should look like her sire, ℳℐ Golden Tea but she does not.

Well maybe she does not have the silver gene but a classic cream does not look like that that is for sure. Maybe she is a Chestnut? So she is a Gold Cream? But Gold creams (Ch/? And Cr/cr on Chestnut) have lighter manes.

I really do not know lol

So, these guys have prominent speckling on their muzzles

So, they have either just champagne (if cream was present there would be lighter freckles) or Double Pearl with Champagne, I'd have to go back in the pedigree more, but I suspect Silver is is involved

I actually thought that there was indeed pearl.

Take a look at this guy https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2440886

Veeery dark eyes and he carries the Champagne gene (2 to 3 generations back in his pedigree you can see the horses linked above) but again I am not sure wether they are double Pearls

I have a double Pearl on black. I will breed her with this stallion and see what happens when and IF I get rid of the Champagne gene (I am starting to think that they are Ch/Ch)

[Silverine]

So, these guys have prominent speckling on their muzzles

So, they have either just champagne (if cream was present there would be lighter freckles) or Double Pearl with Champagne, I'd have to go back in the pedigree more, but I suspect Silver is is involved

First off I would like to correct a few misconceptions about eye color: Tiger Eye will only affect a non-champagne horse if it homozygous. A cream gene on its own will not allow a single copy of TE to be visible. One copy of TE will only ever be visible on a horse that also carries the champagne gene. Pearl itself does not darken the eyes. Champagne horses that do not have TE tend to have very dark eyes in general. This horse, for example, who is a Silver Classic Roan, with no cream or pearl in his pedigree:




Now, on to the horses in question. They are Silver Classic Champagne, possibly with dun thrown in.

There was possible pearl "contamination" in the line through this horse, but he passed his cream (to this horse - a gold cream) rather than his pearl to his offspring in the pedigree. The foal from the gold cream was a Silver Amber Champagne that did not carry the cream forward.

Looking at her pedigree, Golden Tea's dam has no source for pearl or cream. (Her sire, Icy Earthquake, is incorrectly identified as a Silver Amber Cream Dun. He does not carry the cream gene and is simply a Silver Amber Dun. Her dam is the foal of the gold cream mentioned above.)

Eager Earthquake (the sire) has the same dam as Golden Tea's dam. (The undiluted foal of the gold cream.) His sire is also an Amber Cream. However, he does not appear to have inherited his sire's cream gene and could not have inherited one from his mother.

[Veterinarian]

ping

Thanks for clearing that up Silverine

So Golden Tea is indeed a Silver Dun Classic Champagne, right?

What about ℳℐ Light Phoenix? His dam's dam is a Silver Amber Champagne and we know that the sire is a Silver Dun Classic Champagne. The Champagne gene has definitely been passed down to the dam (not sure about the silver gene). The dam is definitely not a bay so she can either be a black or a Chestnut. If she is a black then she should of looked like a Classic Champagne right? With the silver, if she has it, she should of looked like her sire. But she does not. So Chestnut is the only option but she definitely does not look like a gold Champagne, does she?

[Silverine]

ping

Thanks for clearing that up Silverine

So Golden Tea is indeed a Silver Dun Classic Champagne, right?

What about ℳℐ Light Phoenix? His dam's dam is a Silver Amber Champagne and we know that the sire is a Silver Dun Classic Champagne. The Champagne gene has definitely been passed down to the dam (not sure about the silver gene). The dam is definitely not a bay so she can either be a black or a Chestnut. If she is a black then she should of looked like a Classic Champagne right? With the silver, if she has it, she should of looked like her sire. But she does not. So Chestnut is the only option but she definitely does not look like a gold Champagne, does she?

The dun I'm not sure about. It's just so hard to see it on the light coats. BlackOak could tell that better than I can.

All three of the horses you posted are Silver Classic Champagne (with possible dun ). Light Phoenix is the same. His dam, Isda, is the same as well. She also has snowflakes and varnish making her look much lighter. She got them from Icy Spur. It's possible Golden Tea will varnish as well, but he's so young that it's hard to know for sure.

[Veterinarian]

Thanks for clearing that up Silverine

So Golden Tea is indeed a Silver Dun Classic Champagne, right?

What about ℳℐ Light Phoenix? His dam's dam is a Silver Amber Champagne and we know that the sire is a Silver Dun Classic Champagne. The Champagne gene has definitely been passed down to the dam (not sure about the silver gene). The dam is definitely not a bay so she can either be a black or a Chestnut. If she is a black then she should of looked like a Classic Champagne right? With the silver, if she has it, she should of looked like her sire. But she does not. So Chestnut is the only option but she definitely does not look like a gold Champagne, does she?

The dun I'm not sure about. It's just so hard to see it on the light coats. BlackOak could tell that better than I can.

All three of the horses you posted are Silver Classic Champagne (with possible dun ). Light Phoenix is the same. His dam, Isda, is the same as well. She also has snowflakes and varnish making her look much lighter. She got them from Icy Spur. It's possible Golden Tea will varnish as well, but he's so young that it's hard to know for sure.

Really? They are all silver Classic Champagnes?

Maybe I am the only one who sees a difference in their coat colours XD

Or is it the silver gene (and its expression) that is doing this?

Well maybe it is just me, yesterday I was certain that a Chestnut was a bay until I realized that he did not have darker legs and muzzle, oops

Anyways, I am glad they are black based and not Chestnuts lol

Thanks again for the help ^^ <3

[Silverine]

Yep, they're all the same base color. A lot of the difference you see could be due to the Lp gene. It does a lot of wacky things to coats. But it could also just be natural variation.

[Veterinarian]

Yep, they're all the same base color. A lot of the difference you see could be due to the Lp gene. It does a lot of wacky things to coats. But it could also just be natural variation.

Didn't know that ^^ thanks for the info

[BlackOak2]

Didn't know that ^^ thanks for the info

These dilution-based coats, Silverine still tops me for identification. It's more experience and working directly with the coat colors, though I breed some of these up, I'm not focusing on the coat colors, so my experience in this area is still a bit lacking.

As for dun, that's a lot easier for me to tackle. Light Phoenix does have leg bars there, they're negative image of what we regularly see, so I'm suspecting he will be a varnish-only horse, no snowflakes, just the Lp varnish.
However, Isda I don't see much indication of dun at all, so I would suspect first that she does NOT carry it. Though we do have cryptic dun like many other genes on here, so she could have it, just be hiding it.
Golden Tea does have a very faint dorsal stripe and what appears to be leg bars in his yearling picture. So Phoenix's light bar leggings are directly related to his father's. You can also see (rather, I can) on his yearling picture a dun body mask, visible mostly by the sudden darkening of his chest area. Though this sudden darkening can just be caused by the base color expression, it can also an indication of dun; a kind of fence-line shift (does it? doesn't it? Chest darkens considerably, so it does).