Cross Breeding 4 New Breed

[Gamzee]

Hello, can someone explain the cross breeding here? XD I recently came back after a long break, and I'm starting my old project back up which seems like it was getting the "Dole Trotter" and starting on breeding Morgans as well

In theory, shouldn't this have been one(Dole Trotter) ?
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3553676
(Dole Gudbrandsdal x Thoroughbred [50%] Mixed with Thoroughbred x Arabian [50%] ) So I'm a bit stumped at this lol Would appreciate any help with this

[ReeveSaxe]

Looks like an evaluation thing, as the horse does not fit into the parameters for Dole Trotter evaluation. I believe in order to actually create the breed, the horse needs to be born 4/4 eval for that breed, not sure if there are other factors as well though.

[Royale Ranch]

ah, my favorite topic.... dont expect to get a short answer.... (and sorry if i'm overexplaining, just trying to make everything super clear.)

1. Recipe:
Yes, you got the 'recipe' correct. a Dole Trotter is indeed:
[ Thoroughbred x Dole Gudbrandsdal ] x [ Arabian x Thoroughbred ]

2. Breed Creation Requirements:
To create a new breed, the horse not only has to have the right breed parents, but also has to meet the evaluation requirements of desired breed. To find this, (if you haven't already) you will need to buy the breed book. Go to market, book store, and purchase the required book. In this case, its the Dole Trotter, naturally.

3. Breed Evaluation Parameters:
Now, after having the book, go onto a horses page, any horse. In this case, I've opened up the foal in question. Go to the tab that says Eval. Select the Dale Trotter option, and evaluate. Now, you will see a table that mentions Height, Build, Body Size and Type. These are the parameters, so to speak, for the Dale Trotter. Now, note that to create a horse, occasionally a foal pops out, outside these parameters, but its rare.

4. Understanding the Evaluation
Diving deeper into the requirements. The evaluation requires a Dale Trotter (DT from now on) to have the following:
Height: 14.3 - 15.3hh (at mature age)
Build: Med - Heavy
Body Size: 50-80%
Type: 55H to 75Pony.

You foal does not meet any of the listed requirements. But how do we know if a foal will meet the requirements? Short answer, we don't. (Or at least, I cant predict it accurately.) But there is a fair bit you can do to ensure that your foal turns out how we want it too. In this instance, you have the two parents. Lets see what their evaluations are like.

Stallion:
Height: 17.3
Build: Medium Light
Body Size: 30
Type: 50Pony

Mare: - cant see evaluation. because she has retired.
for the sake of this explanation, and because the mare has retired, i'm going to take a (very) inaccurate guess at what she would have been.
Height: 18.3
Build: Light
Body Size: 5%
Type: 83% Horse.

To estimate if the foal will be a successful DT, you can combine the parameters, (and shave a bit off each end where it is unlikely to end) and see where they compare to the requirements.
Estimated Height of Foal: Between 18.0 and 18.3hh
Estimated Bild of Foal: Light-Medium Light
Estimated Body Size: 11%-25%
Estimated Body Type: 55H-78Horse

Lets compare it to the original requirement of a Dole Trotter:
Height: 14.3 - 15.3hh - the estimated foal will be too high
Build: Med - Heavy - the foal will be too light
Body Size: 50-80% - the foal will be too small
Type: 55H to 75Pony. - may just fit, but not likely at all.

so from this, its not likely at all, using the parents listed, that you are going to successfully create a Dole Trotter.
I'll do a second post shortly, outlining how you would be more likely to get a successful breed.

hope this helps so far.

[Gamzee]

Thank you! That actually helped a lot!

So if I take him and breed him to a mare that's better/evens out, but she is also a "HT" or listed as something else, when I get them in that DT range, the offspring will reg as that, right?

[Royale Ranch]

To (hopefully) breed a Dole Trotter from 2xTB's, 1xDole Gudbrandsdal and 1xArabian.

1. Look at the breed recipie in Breeds Wiki: (aka, gen 1)
the breed recipe states the following:

Dole Trotter = [ Thoroughbred x Dole Gudbrandsdal ] x [ Arabian x Thoroughbred ]

In this post, we're going to pretend that you have two TB's, 1xArabian, and 1xDole Gudbrandsdal that meet the evaluations for their own breeds as below.

Theoretically, a TB should be within the following:
Height: 15.0-16.3hh
Build: VL-ML
Body Size: 15-35%
Type: 85-65 Horse Type

an Arabian from the Adoption centre will be within, or very close to the following:
Height: 14.0-15.3
Build: VL-L
Body Size: 0-20%
Type: 100-78%

Theoretically, a Dole Gudbrandsdal should be within the follwing:
Height: 14.0-15.1
Build: ML-MH
Size: 45-65
Type: 60H-60P



2. Estimate What your mixed breed Foals would be, (aka, gen 2) from the evauations.
Now, we're going to estimate what a TBxDG and a Arabian x TB would look like from the Breed Evals.

For the TBxDG, simply put together, and mix the evaluations a bit. same for the ArabxTB

TBxDG
Est. Height: 14.2-16.1hh
Est. Build: L-M
Est. Size: 25-55
Type: 55P - 60H

AxTB
Est. Height: 14.3-16.0
Est. Build: VL-L
Est. Size: 7-27%
Est. Type: 90-70Horse

Its definitely possible that your foals could fall outside of these brackets.. as its just an estimate.


3. estimate what the foal would be from gen 2
Lets estimate what sort of foal you are likely to get from the generation 2 horses, if they fall within the estimated parameters.

estimated [TBxDG] x AxTB
Est. Height: 14.2-16.1
Est. Build: L-ML
Est. Size: 12-43%
Est. Type: 60-73H

assuming that my guesses are correct - which is not likely, lets compare our estimation to the required evaluation for the Dole Trotter:

A Dale Trotter Needs to be:
Height: 14.3 - 15.3hh (at mature age)
Build: Med - Heavy
Body Size: 50-80%
Type: 55H to 75Pony.

Lets Compare:
Height - okay, if none very short or very tall, will work.
Build - Not Likely. - to light.
Size: Not Likely - too small
Type: Not likely. = too horselike.

so, not an easy breed. it wouldnt work. so, how do we make it work? the easiest way is to bend the 'purebred' horses a little to get them to fit better.

.............................................................................

4. Starting again
Lets go back to our arabian, 2xtbs and 1xGB.

Remember our horse was much too light, small and horselike.

Theoretically, a TB should be within the following:
Height: 15.0-16.3hh
Build: VL-ML
Body Size: 15-35%
Type: 85-65 Horse Type

This time, we'll choose a TB (or breed one) to fit more the following requirements.
Height: 15.0-16.1hh (make sure he's not too tall)
Build: ML - he cant be any lighter.
Body Size: 25-40% - very important.
Type: 75-60 Horse Type - as pony type as possible



Remember, an Arabian from the Adoption centre will be within, or very close to the following:
Height: 14.0-15.3
Build: VL-L
Body Size: 0-20%
Type: 100-78%


This time, we'll make sure the Arabian is within the following parameters:
Height: 14.2-15.3 - make sure not too short.
Build: L - must be Light, or heavier.
Body Size: 10-25% - this will be hard to find, but critical.
Type: 85 or less. - may be hard to find, but very important as pony like as possible.


Theoretically, a Dole Gudbrandsdal should be within the follwing:
Height: 14.0-15.1
Build: ML-MH
Size: 45-65
Type: 60H-60P

but this time, we'll make sure its within the following:
Height: 14.2-15.1 - not too short.
Build: M-MH - as heavy as possible, to make up for the other breeds.
Size: 50-65 - on the larger side.
Type: 50P-60P - as pony type as possible.



with our 'new horses' we'll hopefully get foals within the following requirements:
TBxGB
Height: 14.3-15.hh - remember a Dole Trotter cant be shorter than 14.3hh
Build: M-MH - very important not lower than Medium. Preferred is MH.
Size: 40-65. must be as high as possible. otherwise not likely to work.
Type: 55p-65H - if possible, go as pony like as possible.

ArabianxTB
Height: 14.3-15.3 - just keep within, and it will be fine.
Build: L-ML . ML or heavier if possible.
Body Size: 17-35 - eek. or heavier if possible, may be a struggle.
Type: 75-65Horse type. more pony-type preffered.

and now, same as before, look at predicted results:

est. ArabianxTB x TBxGB
Height: 14.3-15.2
Build: ML-MH
Body Size 30-60 - a but wishful to be honest.
type: 50H-70H.

compare:

A Dale Trotter Needs to be:
Height: 14.3 - 15.3hh (at mature age)
Build: Med - Heavy
Body Size: 50-80%
Type: 55H to 75Pony.

and note:

Height - perfect
Build - may be a struggle. essential to choose the heavier builds right through the process.
Body - hmm for me personally, i always struggle with this evaluation requirement. I find its too unpredictable. some wont move at all, others body size will jump everywhere. just... as heavy as possible or it wont work.
size
type: always choose the most pony like, or it wont work.. but similar to body size, is liable to jump around everywhere. (for my last breeding attempt they were all pony type parents, and even then i was getting some horrendously horse-like.)

so, certainly not perfect. and to be honest, with those horses you still would be lucky to get a sucessful foal. Its not easy, and you sure picked a difficult one to do. But i'm sure you get the idea now. I hope that helps.


note: it is possible to re-breed cross breeds with each other (ie a tb x arab and a tbxarab) to get better results, but there is something with the wording in how the foal is born that determines if it will be considered acceptable or not. ie. if it is a grade horse, or a mixed tb, or whatever. You will have to ask someone else about that.. i'm not sure sorry.

[Royale Ranch]

Thank you! That actually helped a lot!

So if I take him and breed him to a mare that's better/evens out, but she is also a "HT" or listed as something else, when I get them in that DT range, the offspring will reg as that, right?

so, you want to breed the foal, or his sire? sorry... bit confused.

[Cypress Creek Elites]

Thank you! That actually helped a lot!

So if I take him and breed him to a mare that's better/evens out, but she is also a "HT" or listed as something else, when I get them in that DT range, the offspring will reg as that, right?

so, you want to breed the foal, or his sire? sorry... bit confused.

An important thing to note as well is that as long as all four breeds are present in the resulting foal, it doesn't matter what the percentages are. If you have a heavier or shorter horse you want to breed back to, so the foal will be closer to the breed standard, go for it! There are no drawbacks to breeding a 75/25 of one half of the recipe to a 50/50 of the other half.

[Gamzee]

Thank you! That actually helped a lot!

So if I take him and breed him to a mare that's better/evens out, but she is also a "HT" or listed as something else, when I get them in that DT range, the offspring will reg as that, right?

so, you want to breed the foal, or his sire? sorry... bit confused.

I was talking about the OG I linked, but honestly looking now, probably will go with y'alls advice of restarting lol

When I started I thought it was x2+x2= Y, y'know? I didn't think it was actually had to fall into measurements of that breed standard lol I might actually put it on hold and come back once I get the hang of it with a more simpler breed

[Gamzee]

so, you want to breed the foal, or his sire? sorry... bit confused.

An important thing to note as well is that as long as all four breeds are present in the resulting foal, it doesn't matter what the percentages are. If you have a heavier or shorter horse you want to breed back to, so the foal will be closer to the breed standard, go for it! There are no drawbacks to breeding a 75/25 of one half of the recipe to a 50/50 of the other half.

ooohhh Okay, yeah that's what I was asking about- noted! Thank you I didn't know if they had to be the same amount of all the breeds if that makes sense lol