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Lets Talk About Champing Horses

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Hidalgo
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Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Hidalgo » April 6th, 2021, 11:09 am

Ok, so other players have talked about this before, but I feel it's time to bring up the topic again.

I know many people like to buy or stud to horses that have competed and have a title anywhere from Champion to SMGCh, or compete their own horses in events until they have gained titles, thinking that the title means the horse is better or worth more. It doesn't. Having horses with titles CAN mean the horse is better, but that is directly tied to the Win Percentage. Let me show some examples.

This is a horse likeit2 bred for the Crummy Foal Quest. likeit2 trained him and I champed him. You almost could not find a worse horse to compete, but I entered him in every single competition he qualified for that had an entry fee under $20. With only 60 starts he gained a Champion title in Log Pull. But he's pretty much worthless for anything except the Crummy Foal Quest. His Win% is a measly 21.7, which if I'm honest, is a lot higher than I thought it would be. I could continue to enter him in competitions until he gained a title of SMGCh, but that would be a waste of time and money :lol:



Similarly, this untrained horse has been champed to the SMGCh level. If I understand correctly, she's the first untrained horse to reach that level so it's pretty impressive! However all those pretty titles don't tell much about her actual value since her WPS is so low.




Now meet another horse. He has earned the MGCh title in Log Pull while maintaining a Win% of 97.1. (At the time this was posted) He is an example of when a title can be one of the indicators of a good horse.



Another sort of horse you may have to watch out for is one that has a really high title and a great Win%, but has been entered in only a few competitions. (Sorry, but I don't have an example to show you.) That horse MAY be a good horse, but its title was gained by entering in a few competitions that had anywhere from 20-150+ untrained horses, so it's hard to truly evaluate the horse. Here's a good example of an inflated competition: https://www.horseworldonline.net/compet ... ?edition=1 I saw a horse once with an SMGCh title and only 3 starts. That title looks cool but it's practically meaningless.

As was brought to my attention by BlackOak and Thundermare, some people like to force champ or Force-Point their horses just because they like the title, which is fine. However some people do this because they are aware people are more likely pay more to buy or stud to a horse with a title and this is called False-Pointing. This is dishonest and no one should take advantage of other players in this way.

So when you're looking to buy or breed to a horse that has a title, here are some things to evaluate, aside from conformation--

Does the horse have a high win percent? In popular events such as Dressage and Racing events, a 75% win and up is considered good. In less popular events such as In Hand Jumping or Marathon Driving, 85% and up is generally considered good. 90% and up is great in any category!

How many starts does the horse have in the category you're looking at? If the horse is an SMGCh with a few starts, consider it an untested horse. If it has 50+ starts and is maintaining a good Win% in the category you need, great!

I hope this has been helpful for someone, and if anyone has anything to add or correct let me know!
Last edited by Hidalgo on April 9th, 2021, 7:54 pm, edited 7 times in total.

RRandSSFarms
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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby RRandSSFarms » April 8th, 2021, 12:13 am

Me- Checks this and looks at percentages on my best stud for win rate, Whew. he is doing ok ^^'

75 starts with a %89.3 win rate

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby RacingTB1974 » April 8th, 2021, 1:54 am

Hidalgo wrote:Ok, so other players have talked about this before, but I feel it's time to bring up the topic again.

I know many people like to buy or stud to horses that have competed and have a title anywhere from Champion to SMGCh, or compete their own horses in events until they have gained titles, thinking that the title means the horse is better or worth more. It doesn't. Having horses with titles CAN mean the horse is better, but that is directly tied to the Win Percentage. Let me show two examples.

This is a horse likeit2 bred for the Crummy Foal Quest. likeit2 trained him and I champed him. You almost could not find a worse horse to compete, but I entered him in every single competition he qualified for that had an entry fee under $20. With only 60 starts he gained a Champion title in Log Pull. But he's pretty much worthless for anything except the Crummy Foal Quest. His Win% is a measly 21.7, which if I'm honest, is a lot higher than I thought it would be. I could continue to enter him in competitions until he gained a title of SMGCh, but that would be a waste of time and money :lol:



Now meet another horse. He has earned the MGCh title in Log Pull while maintaining a Win% of 97.1. He is an example of when a title can be one of the indicators of a good horse.



Another sort of horse you may have to watch out for is one that has a really high title and a great Win%, but has been entered in only a few competitions. (Sorry, but I don't have an example to show you.) That horse MAY be a good horse, but its title was gained by entering in a few competitions that had tons of untrained horses, so it's hard to truly evaluate the horse. I saw one once with an SMGCh title and only 3 starts. That title looks cool but it's practically meaningless.

So when you're looking to buy or breed to a horse that has a title, here are some things to evaluate, aside from conformation--

Does the horse have a high win percent? In popular events such as Dressage and Racing events, a 75% win and up is considered good. In less popular events such as In Hand Jumping or Marathon Driving, 85% and up is generally considered good. 90% and up is great in any category!

How many starts does the horse have in the category you're looking at? If the horse is an SMGCh with a few starts, consider it an untested horse. If it has 50+ starts and is maintaining a good Win% in the category you need, great!

I hope this has been helpful for someone, and if anyone has anything to add or correct let me know!


thanks this was very helpful!! :D :D please do more!!

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Mega » April 8th, 2021, 8:45 am

I agree with you totally Hidalgo

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Hidalgo » April 8th, 2021, 2:47 pm

RRandSSFarms wrote:Me- Checks this and looks at percentages on my best stud for win rate, Whew. he is doing ok ^^'

75 starts with a %89.3 win rate

:lol: Awesome

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Hidalgo » April 8th, 2021, 2:50 pm

kat_2009 wrote:
thanks this was very helpful!! :D :D please do more!!


I'm glad to hear it!!!

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Hidalgo » April 8th, 2021, 2:51 pm

Mega wrote:I agree with you totally Hidalgo

Thanks :)

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Sawd10 » April 8th, 2021, 4:02 pm

I agree.

Thank you for putting this out, we've not seen one of these in a while.

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Hidalgo » April 8th, 2021, 7:03 pm

Sawd10 wrote:I agree.

Thank you for putting this out, we've not seen one of these in a while.

Thanks and you're welcome :lol:

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Re: Lets Talk About Champing Horses

Postby Thundermare » April 8th, 2021, 7:44 pm

I think it's good that we brought this up. I'm guilty of force pointing my horses to SMGCh but I don't do it for profit. I just do it because I like seeing titles on my horses and none of my speed champed horses are up for sale. I have seen others for sale though, so it's good to be educated on force pointing so nobody gets scammed.

It helps to pay attention to the horse's minimum competition level. If the comp level is at 10 or another really high level that's a sign that the horse has been force pointed. Competiton level can tell you a lot ;)

I have another example of a below average horse making it to champion levels:
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2040986
I say "below average" because she is completely untrained. Thank you for posting this; it's very helpful. :)


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