Dun or not?

[stickers]

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Okay, so here's where I'm at now. Again, mostly for my own organization so no one is obligated to actually take note of this, lol.

I wasn't patient enough to wait for black AC Arabians (spending hours checking off and on was the limit of my tolerance) I got a couple black Caspians for testing. The dun AC Caspians I've had before were pretty easy to spot, so I'm pretty confident that these guys are dun-free. The first round of half-Caspian offspring are cooking now, but their parents keep passing on their agouti genes, so none of them are black. Regardless, I'm hoping they'll still help me spot sneaky duns, even if it won't be as blatantly.

In the meantime, here are a couple earlier foals who have hit their first birthdays:

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1903151
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1903158
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1902490
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1904464
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1906778

[BlackOak2]

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I haven't worked with caspians that much (especially with those duns on them), so I can't offer much additional insight into the AC breed. Also don't forget to cruise the market, there's a ton of arabs from the AC for sale, there's always a chance to find one that has a previous owner (even those with no offspring, or a dead bloodline). So don't forget that market either.

Now for the yearlings:

Two Bulls: It doesn't appear he has any signs, no dorsal, no ear tint, no ankle tint, no other stripes... but he does appear to have a body mask. Although I see no other signs other then this body mask, I still want to say that he's a dun possible.

Pale Song: Much like Two Bulls, except this one doesn't appear to have the body mask. I'm going to say that there's no dun on this one.

Bullet Song: There does appear to be a dorsal, but that could be as much as pangare as dun. So I'm unsure what the discoloration is actually caused from. I see no other indications of dun however.

Dovetail: Again, the pangare appears to be offering some sort of pseudo-dorsal. But on this girl, it's much less apparent. And again, no other signs of dun.

Three Bull: Again with the pangare. But this one does appear to be a dun foal. The fetlocks are lighter, the face is a little darker (body mask is apparent), and on this one, the dorsal appears to be stronger, although still cryptic.

[stickers]

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Haha... I went through all 37 pages of the market on purebred Arabians, including checking out the ones under $5k that didn't have pictures showing, and found a ton of bays but no blacks. It definitely contributed to me running out of patience and going for Caspians instead.

This is the dam of the foal you said (and I agree) looks like probable dun. Is she looking more dunlike to you as she gets older? I'm wondering if she's dun and passed it along.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1854922

Also, you mentioned ear tint as a possible sign for dun. I've heard that before but never knew what was meant by it. Can you elaborate or show an example?

And my first round of half-Cas test babies hit their first birthday late last night.

Bay (trying not to get my hopes up, but not obviously dun?):
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1908602
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1908603
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1908606

Chestnut (can't tell if it's just pale or if it's a body mask):
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1908607

Black (hopefully?):
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1908621

Grullo?? (the test might have worked!):
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1909121

[BlackOak2]

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We'll start with ear tint.
Ear tint, because the ears are so small to begin with, is really hard to tell anyway. It's like a secondary check, after the first check appears to have dun (like the body mask check). What makes it harder, is that the shadows inherent in the image of our horses, already tends to hide ear tint to begin with, so it only really works with the base colors.

I think with these two images, it will describe quite readily what I mean by the ear tint. Brown is quite a nice color for this example. If you open these images in a separate tab (on a black background), the ear tint becomes even more apparent.





Bully Bull is one of those sooty that I had a question on now. I'm not sure. I still don't see any indications of dun. Plus her foal picture has no foal mask. So maybe I keep flipping on this mare, but I still don't see any dun. I still want to say no dun for her. Dun is definitely dominant, so any genes passed on WILL show, even if we can't make sense of them.

Well, I've gone through multiple pages like that myself, searching for just one specific horse, so I know that mounting frustration as well. It's also one of the reasons I'm not fond of market cleaning when a purchasable horse can be outright bought. So that's one of the reasons I'm against the consideration (with the only exception being offers only horses).

Now for the test yearlings.
The bay's I see no indications of dun, very bright, brilliant colors with no signs of masking either.
I have questions about Orchestra Song (the last bay you linked), there does seem to be an unusual touch of something, as well as what I'm imagining as stripes just there on that front leg, intermixed with the pangare.

The chestnut... I want to say this is a dun, right along with you. The newborn picture doesn't look quite as bright as I expect it either, so I want to say there's a foal mask apparent as well.

The black certainly appears as a BLACK-black to me as well. Can't see flank... neck... other key areas.

And the last one is most DEFINITELY grullo.

Your caspian is a single black, single chestnut. So although that doesn't mean much, it does mean that he won't always offer a black gene forward. Just makes it perhaps just a little more frustrating, on top of the bays that your stock will throw. However, at least its a start and you can weed out those that definitely show dun offspring.