Horses Basic Physique Heritability???

[DarkAngelRising]

Does anyone know what the math is for the heritability of eval traits? For example the average between the parents or average + or - a factor.
I really want to know what the range can be and if it can be predicted and another set of eyes would be so helpful.

[BlackOak2]

Does anyone know what the math is for the heritability of eval traits? For example the average between the parents or average + or - a factor.
I really want to know what the range can be and if it can be predicted and another set of eyes would be so helpful.

This is a difficult question to answer.
Although I can answer it directly by saying: No. The only ones that know and understand the 'math' that goes into calculating the resulting foal is our admins. They have been and will be tight lipped on it.

To offer more insight, however, I will explain it this way:
Each horse has an 'obvious' and 'hidden' set of traits that they can but may not pass on. It's a wide set of values that covers stats, conformation, body look, body build, colors and a few other things. 'Obvious' traits are what we can see, like a green strength and a strength score of 45. 'Hidden' traits are those that the horse has but we can't see, I'll elaborate below.
Some of these things are easy to identify and know that they'll pass on (for instance if you have both chestnut parents, your foal will be chestnut, with the exception of hidden pearls).
But most of them (such as stats, look, conformation...) you won't know what will pass on and can only theorize what might.

However, there are a few things that will help to identify what might be most likely to pass on. Such as a horse that has high speed is more likely to pass on those speed genetics to all of his or her offspring. Or a horse that has successfully competed with a high WPS (win, place, show) percentage, will often throw better foals when paired with like parents.

Now for the glorious 'hidden' traits.
What we see 'on paper' for any horse:
This colt seems as strong as average. Your colt is very fast. Nice colt has a ton of stamina to spare. He'll go the distance for you! This colt falls right in the middle, movement-wise. This colt's tempo is like clockwork! This colt could do ballet he has such perfect balance! This colt is quick on its hooves. This colt is a genius!
Plus the conformation stats:
Speed 36
Strength 25
Stamina 36
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 36
Movement 41
Agility 40
Tempo 39

Only tells us what the horse has 'active' for their lifetime. The hidden genes and traits are the wide values that the horse has inherited from both parents.
So for instance, if the on-paper strength gene for this horse is 302 (we don't know how it's valued, this is just an example to help the understanding), that doesn't mean that's the only strength gene that the horse has. It carries with it a wide (or slim) value base. It might be carrying 250 to 330 strength, but we only SEE the 302. Thus, when bred, the horse can pass down ANY values (not value) between 250 to 330. The combination of both parents will offer to the resulting foal the values that it can carry. Then when the foal is born, we will see 'on-paper' what the final value the foal will show for it's lifetime.

So with this understanding, we can have a very poor horse, either on paper or proven in competitions to fail horribly, give birth to amazing offspring. Because what we see on paper would be the bottom end of all the stats it actually carries and that lay hidden.

So that offers insight into what happens for our breeding, but to offer insight into what to expect for the betterment of your herd, it's a bit trial and error. If you have a strong competing horse, find another of like build and like competition record and you will have a 'better chance' of having better offspring. But sometimes a matching pair still doesn't throw good foals. Sometimes they just don't mix well... I'm not sure why, but many of us have experienced similar outcomes.

Does that help at all? Or offer more questions?

If you understood all of that, I do have some heavy reading that you can delve into to understand the intricacies of developing a line.
But! One does NOT need it to succeed on the game. It's just some insight to get you there perhaps faster.

[DarkAngelRising]

Thank you for answering! Any additional information would be appreciated for sure. I alway love learning the intricacies of horse genetics in these games!
I'm currently focusing on breed creation and trying to figure out how physique traits get passed on to what extent and how much "wiggle room" there is. Probably going to be just a lot of trial and error like you said and recording as many foal-parent traits as I can.
I am also developing some show lines to support myself so heavier reading regarding any of that would be super useful even just for speed and enjoyment if it's really not necessary.

[BlackOak2]

Thank you for answering! Any additional information would be appreciated for sure. I alway love learning the intricacies of horse genetics in these games!
I'm currently focusing on breed creation and trying to figure out how physique traits get passed on to what extent and how much "wiggle room" there is. Probably going to be just a lot of trial and error like you said and recording as many foal-parent traits as I can.
I am also developing some show lines to support myself so heavier reading regarding any of that would be super useful even just for speed and enjoyment if it's really not necessary.

You just let us know when and where you get stuck, we'll do our best to get you straight.

Here's the link:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=14535&hilit

You'll also likely find this link helpful, it's much lighter reading:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=10502

Also, my quick-links has a lot of other articles if you choose to investigate other aspects yourself.

When you're ready, or when you think you are, I'm willing to purchase a quality mare from the market for you and breed her to my own competition line, then offer her for free ($1) to you to get you on your way to supporting yourself. She will, at the very least, offer you a strong grinder line.
Training is an important and HIGHLY sought after part of the game, so our public trainers are usually swamped. It will take about 6 months to learn the minimum skills if you want to tackle that route, but I suggest doing so for yourself first.

[DarkAngelRising]

Thank you, You have a very wonderful quick links page! I saw that it existed when you first responded and have since had like 20 tabs open . Its amazing how difficult it is to find some things in the forums!
Those conformation links were quite eye opening I will be looking through to see if there is a reference chart or things I can compile for it as I cant get premium right now and looking at horses all day in lockdown is certainly no chore
As for training I am still learning a whole lot. My current Local Shows Horse is this mare:
Silver Dream

And I have her pretty consistently 1st - 2nd in level 8 So I don't know where that leaves your very kind offer but I appreciate it nonetheless

[BlackOak2]

Thank you, You have a very wonderful quick links page! I saw that it existed when you first responded and have since had like 20 tabs open . Its amazing how difficult it is to find some things in the forums!
Those conformation links were quite eye opening I will be looking through to see if there is a reference chart or things I can compile for it as I cant get premium right now and looking at horses all day in lockdown is certainly no chore
As for training I am still learning a whole lot. My current Local Shows Horse is this mare:
Silver Dream

And I have her pretty consistently 1st - 2nd in level 8 So I don't know where that leaves your very kind offer but I appreciate it nonetheless

I also found that topics were so easily lost in the forums as well. After suffering the search countless times, I finally grew tired of it, thus the quicklinks.

Premium does help move breeding along, but it's not necessary to get to the top. In fact, my first RH (record holder) was popped well before I upgraded. They come from left field as often and maybe more so then properly bred for.
The more I play, the more I realize that being 'in the top' isn't necessarily having a record holder or having a horse in the rankings, it's about having a bloodline that performs so well, or produces so well that everybody wants one.
But, to each their own.

That mare certainly has potential.
For your information, here is her scores:
Speed 30
Strength 28
Stamina 29
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 37
Movement 48
Agility 21
Tempo 42

Your goal area for your competition line should be right there in the low 60's, so just like her's is 61836 is a good range to be in. Especially since the line is meant for competition and not necessarily for (just yet) topping the charts or achieving RH status. As you learn how to balance and maintain good genes, then the rest will begin to naturally appear, both higher HGP and also rankings and likely eventually RH status. However, a better money-maker horse is very, very often, never an RH. Many of our current and previous RH's (with a few exceptions) have a 'heart gene' that comes and goes (the will to win). It's all revealed in that competition record.

Once you're able to maintain, then it's time to hone. Figure out where you want your competition line to specialize in. Some competition types will be easier to tackle than others. The harder ones right now (but arguably more money to be made) is racing, sprint and log pull. Steeple isn't too easy to compete in, nor is something like marathon or obstacle. But these last three is more difficult because of the way the stats line up more so than the competition.

Seeing the mare that you have already, I think my Rh pole bender might be a decent enough match. But I also have a couple other studs that should be just as good (or perhaps better). Take a look, take your time deciding, all of my competition line right now are in board, so they're not aging. The good thing is, that my line is decently dependable about popping good foals regularly, so even if the foal that pops doesn't turn out too good looking, there's a lot of good genes hiding.

Rh stud:
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2006531

Other potentials:
full brother to the Rh: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2006289
I wouldn't necessarily recommend him, he hasn't yet thrown anything acceptable, there's something else going on, but I'm not yet sure what.

half brother to the Rh: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2022109
He's thrown well already, but he has some weaker blood on the sire side, so he might suddenly pop an unacceptable as well

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2403400
This boy is a bit heavier, but proven in competitions as a generalist instead of a specialist like the above three where bred. My line is 'specialized generalists' so they tend to mix better with other lines, no matter what the other line specialized in.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2231255
He hasn't yet been fully tested, but he's showing some good promise, so he'll be available as well.

https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2117484
And this boy, he's more of a specialist then a generalist though. Mare line is also a little weak.

Consider each of them and try to find the best match. I can offer some further insight into them if you need, or offer further pointers. If you want to confirm something, I can also help with that, or should be able to.

When you make your decision, we can get together in chat perhaps and I can post him for you.

You should be able to immediately post now and also access chat.

[DarkAngelRising]

When you said pole bending my ears perked up because my other mare (https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2583144) in training is marked for that based on her breeders report and looking at your first stud and her reports side by side they are very very similar

I cannot be certain, but it seems she'll grow into a strong mare. Your mare is very fast. Your mare could run all day and not be tired! This mare falls right in the middle, movement-wise. This mare is very steady. Your mare is very sturdy. Your mare is very nimble. This mare is a genius!


I cannot be certain, but it seems he'll grow into a strong stallion. This stallion is faster than lightning! This stallion's endurance is higher than average. This stallion is very average, even in the way he moves. This stallion is very steady. This is one balanced horse! Your stallion is very nimble. This stallion is pretty bright.

All the same highlighted ones with varying green-gold and also very similar hgp:
Cobalt: 64,468
Ewel: 65,090

Do you think that their strengths would compound and have high probability of a same~ or better foal?

[Malakai10]

When you said pole bending my ears perked up because my other mare (https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2583144) in training is marked for that based on her breeders report and looking at your first stud and her reports side by side they are very very similar

I cannot be certain, but it seems she'll grow into a strong mare. Your mare is very fast. Your mare could run all day and not be tired! This mare falls right in the middle, movement-wise. This mare is very steady. Your mare is very sturdy. Your mare is very nimble. This mare is a genius!


I cannot be certain, but it seems he'll grow into a strong stallion. This stallion is faster than lightning! This stallion's endurance is higher than average. This stallion is very average, even in the way he moves. This stallion is very steady. This is one balanced horse! Your stallion is very nimble. This stallion is pretty bright.

All the same highlighted ones with varying green-gold and also very similar hgp:
Cobalt: 64,468
Ewel: 65,090

Do you think that their strengths would compound and have high probability of a same~ or better foal?

When I tried breeding horses together for better strength traits, a lot of the horses I had were either described with average comments or the strength comments written above. From what I remember, you will have a small chance of having a comment that is 'better' than the above comments, a moderate chance of it being the same as the above too and a moderate chance of it being 'worse'.

[DarkAngelRising]

Hmm... Would you say it's worth the risk of 'worse' or to consider another possibility?

[BlackOak2]

Hmm... Would you say it's worth the risk of 'worse' or to consider another possibility?

It's a little about chance, a little about luck, a bit more about knowing everything you can about the lines you intend to breed together and the most about those hidden genes we can't see.

I think, when Malakai10 replied they assumed you meant the specific stat 'strength'. However, what they offered can hold true over all of the comments.

you will have a small chance of having a comment that is 'better' than the... comments, a moderate chance of it being the same...

And then of course there is always the chance of it being worse. That's when understanding and knowing what your horses have, can make a difference of whether to take a chance or not.

Untested horses (virtually untested anyway) like yours, lacks a key informational component that really helps us understand if the resulting foal will be a quality competitor or just 'pretty paper'. However, 'pretty paper' can still be a good, strong grinder.
By competing a horse and seeing a strong competition record with high WPS even in the higher levels (I use 20 total competitions to check, usually in levels 7 to 10), it has been seen that these style horses more often and are much more likely to produce a better quality foal. That being said, the better quality foal may not be overall better 'on paper' then his or her parents, but still run them into the ground in competitions.

I'm not sure why, but I dislike Ewel Lass. I can't understand the reasoning though. But ignoring that thought, either one of these mares might be a good match for any of the stallions I offered.
By the way, here is her scores:
Speed 39
Strength 26
Stamina 35
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 37
Movement 54
Agility 34
Tempo 32

I'm also not too fond of the hip height differences between the Rh stud and Ewel Lass, but that doesn't mean the foal will be a bad outcome.

I'm not sure if the Rh stud would be the best option. I'm leaning more toward the heavier one ID 2403400. The foal should pop somewhere between the two, but offer in a much stronger chance of heart to work with.

But I offered a breeding to one of these studs, the option will be yours.