Ping

[Grand Prix]

...

Hello!
I just wanted to let you know I have a big happy accomplishment!
I have just bred my first successful Western Trail horse!
☭ Buzz ☭

I know you are very busy so I will keep this short!

He has 30 Starts 3 Firsts 11 seconds 12 thirds and a 86.7 %

As you know I would love to hear your feedback on him and what I could do to improve!

[BlackOak2]

...

Hello!
I just wanted to let you know I have a big happy accomplishment!
I have just bred my first successful Western Trail horse!
I know you are very busy so I will keep this short!

He has 30 Starts 3 Firsts 11 seconds 12 thirds and a 86.7 %

As you know I would love to hear your feedback on him and what I could do to improve!

Busy or not, I always try to spare a few minutes for the forum.

So first, some statistics...
His best Trail time is: 54.94
World Records sit at approximately: 58 to 61
Trail stats are: Agility Balance Intelligence Stamina
His stats are:
Agility: 47 gold (strong comment)
Balance: 33 gold (strong comment)
Intelligence: -- green (good comment)
Stamina: 31 green (strong comment)
HGP: 61732

He is fully trained and has a trialing of competitions from mostly level 5 and lower, with some thrown in from the upper levels.

Overall, his body conformation (look, not scores), is fairly decently aligned with the western trail form we've been given (included in SeinaMacabre Extensive User Guide). His hips are a little misaligned as well as his ribs and depth of flank area (again, visually only). But not far enough out of wack that I would say he would be 'despite his body conformation (look)'.

And finally, heart. He has been tested against some stronger competition. And so far, he appears to be holding his own and where one might expect him to. He appears to have about an average heart so far (good as it looks, but with his stats, he should be able to hold something of this sort at higher levels and I suspect he won't be able to at this same rate for the higher levels).

He's right where he should be for the combination of stats and BR and HGP. His heart isn't exactly helping with his wins, but it's not exactly hindering him either. By correcting his body form (and also his score breakdown), you will be able to increase and build upon his conformation scores themselves. Keep in mind that aiming for just higher scores can also result in a weakening of the genes themselves, so make sure to keep an eye on not just the comment, but also the color of those four stats and to balance the movement of the BR with the increase with the scores. If you take a look at his highest score competition and the two horses ranked right in front of and right behind him, BR and HGP considered, they're not too different.
2nd place: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2469349
4th place: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2691480
But in regarding to their scores, there is a little bit more of a difference.
And it also shows in their scores as well.
2nd place: scores in the 54 range (your horse's highest) are this horse's lower end.
4th place: scores in the 54 range are this horse's middle range.

My suggestion: don't forget about the heart. Even a really poorly 'papered' horse can have an explosive competition career. Find a mare that shows a talent for trail and a stronger heart gene, even if her 'paper' looks a bit wacky or unusual for the competition. By combining your stallion with a mare like this, you should be able to improve upon the mare's strengths while solidifying your stallion's abilities. And also, not every horse will pair well together. Some just never seem to sync-up for some reason.

[Grand Prix]

Hello!
I just wanted to let you know I have a big happy accomplishment!
I have just bred my first successful Western Trail horse!
I know you are very busy so I will keep this short!

He has 30 Starts 3 Firsts 11 seconds 12 thirds and a 86.7 %

As you know I would love to hear your feedback on him and what I could do to improve!

Busy or not, I always try to spare a few minutes for the forum.

So first, some statistics...
His best Trail time is: 54.94
World Records sit at approximately: 58 to 61
Trail stats are: Agility Balance Intelligence Stamina
His stats are:
Agility: 47 gold (strong comment)
Balance: 33 gold (strong comment)
Intelligence: -- green (good comment)
Stamina: 31 green (strong comment)
HGP: 61732

He is fully trained and has a trialing of competitions from mostly level 5 and lower, with some thrown in from the upper levels.

Overall, his body conformation (look, not scores), is fairly decently aligned with the western trail form we've been given (included in SeinaMacabre Extensive User Guide). His hips are a little misaligned as well as his ribs and depth of flank area (again, visually only). But not far enough out of wack that I would say he would be 'despite his body conformation (look)'.

And finally, heart. He has been tested against some stronger competition. And so far, he appears to be holding his own and where one might expect him to. He appears to have about an average heart so far (good as it looks, but with his stats, he should be able to hold something of this sort at higher levels and I suspect he won't be able to at this same rate for the higher levels).

He's right where he should be for the combination of stats and BR and HGP. His heart isn't exactly helping with his wins, but it's not exactly hindering him either. By correcting his body form (and also his score breakdown), you will be able to increase and build upon his conformation scores themselves. Keep in mind that aiming for just higher scores can also result in a weakening of the genes themselves, so make sure to keep an eye on not just the comment, but also the color of those four stats and to balance the movement of the BR with the increase with the scores. If you take a look at his highest score competition and the two horses ranked right in front of and right behind him, BR and HGP considered, they're not too different.
2nd place: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2469349
4th place: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2691480
But in regarding to their scores, there is a little bit more of a difference.
And it also shows in their scores as well.
2nd place: scores in the 54 range (your horse's highest) are this horse's lower end.
4th place: scores in the 54 range are this horse's middle range.

My suggestion: don't forget about the heart. Even a really poorly 'papered' horse can have an explosive competition career. Find a mare that shows a talent for trail and a stronger heart gene, even if her 'paper' looks a bit wacky or unusual for the competition. By combining your stallion with a mare like this, you should be able to improve upon the mare's strengths while solidifying your stallion's abilities. And also, not every horse will pair well together. Some just never seem to sync-up for some reason.

Thank-You so much! I will certainly find a mare I think is companionable. But I do have a question about heart? How do you know when they have a good strong pr weak heart? I tried to read it over in your message but I didn't %100 get it.

Again thank-you so much I really treasure your opinion.

[BlackOak2]

Thank-You so much! I will certainly find a mare I think is companionable. But I do have a question about heart? How do you know when they have a good strong pr weak heart? I tried to read it over in your message but I didn't %100 get it.

Again thank-you so much I really treasure your opinion.

In this, it's all about the proof.

Say you have two horses, both with the same HGP (let's say the same in every way, identical twins and training)... both pitted against one another and other top horses and always competing in levels 7 through 10.

One has a WPS of: 90% 100 starts 60 wins 20 seconds 10 thirds
The other has a WPS of 70% 100 starts 20 wins 40 seconds 10 thirds

That's pretty obvious which one has better heart.

How about this:

WPS 70% 100 starts 40 wins 10 seconds 20 thirds
WPS 70% 100 starts 20 wins 30 seconds 20 thirds

Okay, so still a bit obvious, when you consider everything. Still, 70% WPS is better than a lot, but not great. Between the two of them, still, the top horse is the better of the two for heart... right? Not necessarily, but in this case, yes, however, horse number 2 could still offer the same foalings and horse number 1, why? Because their heart genes are similar enough that they might actually share a gene or two... of course, this is all theory, because we don't really know or understand what the heart gene is, how many there may be and how they interact with each other.

Then we can have something like this:

WPS 90% 100 starts 10 wins 20 seconds 60 thirds
WPS 80% 100 starts 40 wins 30 seconds 10 thirds

Which one of these two horses has the potential for better heart? The first... or the second? This is where we get into personal preference. In my opinion, though there is a weaker WPS, the second horse has a stronger heart. Even in our theory, both of these horses are identical twins with the only difference of heart gene and I'd still pick the second one to have the foals over the first. I might not cull the first one, because the WPS is stronger, but I would certainly be much more selective over a partner.

So heart comes down to [opinion] and how we feel overall the horse performs against our expectations. If we expect a horse to have a high WPS and should win most of it's competitions and it has a high WPS but overall ends up usually placing second or third instead, even if much of those are second placements... this would still be less heart then we would want, thus the horse has a 'weaker' heart... or perhaps it's average... okay heart... so on.

To me, there exists a couple different types of heart:
Outstanding Heart: Always exceeds expectations
Good Heart: exceeds expectations more often than not
Average Heart: Right where I expect the horse to be, a few wins, a few fails but still a strong WPS of 70% or greater
Okay Heart: WPS might not be quite 70%, but shows some signs of 'try', a few wins or better placements than perhaps expectations first suggest
Poor Heart: Fails expectations mostly, but still sits about where the 'on paper' suggests the horse should at least be
No Heart: Completely fails regardless of the 'on paper' and fails against competition that may have no training or limited training and gets consistently beat, beaten up or otherwise runs the opposite direction.
Intermittent Heart: A horse that occasionally shows really outstanding performances, but between these, shows rather average or even really poor performances. A lot of our horses and indeed many of our RH and Rh's have this one. It is most often viewed by having a really wide range of scores in their competitions, rather than a much slimmer range.

Out of all of these, I cull or am very careful with breeding those that have no, poor and specifically intermittent hearts. In fact, I'd rather have a poor heart than an intermittent one. I like my horse's to be fairly even in their performances.

And you don't need to fully train to get a sampling of potential heart. One can get a sampling with an untrained if one understand a few edits to keep in mind.
--> An untrained horse can offer the intermittent style at first. Doesn't mean they have it, just means they're 'all over the place' during the competition... which is simply an acceptable fact.
--> Offer only the lower levels to see what potential heart might exist, by entering an untrained against fully trained and leveled-out horses will only ever lead to complete failure for the test for heart. This is a bit obvious.
--> The horse will be performing on pure talent, nothing else, so the sloppy returns must be evaluated with a sloppy expectation, not a honed or top-notch one. The horse IS Going To Fail... it's just how badly they do or how close they are to Not Quite Failing that the heart gets evaluated against.

[Grand Prix]

Thank-You so much! I will certainly find a mare I think is companionable. But I do have a question about heart? How do you know when they have a good strong pr weak heart? I tried to read it over in your message but I didn't %100 get it.

Again thank-you so much I really treasure your opinion.

In this, it's all about the proof.

Say you have two horses, both with the same HGP (let's say the same in every way, identical twins and training)... both pitted against one another and other top horses and always competing in levels 7 through 10.

One has a WPS of: 90% 100 starts 60 wins 20 seconds 10 thirds
The other has a WPS of 70% 100 starts 20 wins 40 seconds 10 thirds

That's pretty obvious which one has better heart.

How about this:

WPS 70% 100 starts 40 wins 10 seconds 20 thirds
WPS 70% 100 starts 20 wins 30 seconds 20 thirds

Okay, so still a bit obvious, when you consider everything. Still, 70% WPS is better than a lot, but not great. Between the two of them, still, the top horse is the better of the two for heart... right? Not necessarily, but in this case, yes, however, horse number 2 could still offer the same foalings and horse number 1, why? Because their heart genes are similar enough that they might actually share a gene or two... of course, this is all theory, because we don't really know or understand what the heart gene is, how many there may be and how they interact with each other.

Then we can have something like this:

WPS 90% 100 starts 10 wins 20 seconds 60 thirds
WPS 80% 100 starts 40 wins 30 seconds 10 thirds

Which one of these two horses has the potential for better heart? The first... or the second? This is where we get into personal preference. In my opinion, though there is a weaker WPS, the second horse has a stronger heart. Even in our theory, both of these horses are identical twins with the only difference of heart gene and I'd still pick the second one to have the foals over the first. I might not cull the first one, because the WPS is stronger, but I would certainly be much more selective over a partner.

So heart comes down to [opinion] and how we feel overall the horse performs against our expectations. If we expect a horse to have a high WPS and should win most of it's competitions and it has a high WPS but overall ends up usually placing second or third instead, even if much of those are second placements... this would still be less heart then we would want, thus the horse has a 'weaker' heart... or perhaps it's average... okay heart... so on.

To me, there exists a couple different types of heart:
Outstanding Heart: Always exceeds expectations
Good Heart: exceeds expectations more often than not
Average Heart: Right where I expect the horse to be, a few wins, a few fails but still a strong WPS of 70% or greater
Okay Heart: WPS might not be quite 70%, but shows some signs of 'try', a few wins or better placements than perhaps expectations first suggest
Poor Heart: Fails expectations mostly, but still sits about where the 'on paper' suggests the horse should at least be
No Heart: Completely fails regardless of the 'on paper' and fails against competition that may have no training or limited training and gets consistently beat, beaten up or otherwise runs the opposite direction.
Intermittent Heart: A horse that occasionally shows really outstanding performances, but between these, shows rather average or even really poor performances. A lot of our horses and indeed many of our RH and Rh's have this one. It is most often viewed by having a really wide range of scores in their competitions, rather than a much slimmer range.

Out of all of these, I cull or am very careful with breeding those that have no, poor and specifically intermittent hearts. In fact, I'd rather have a poor heart than an intermittent one. I like my horse's to be fairly even in their performances.

And you don't need to fully train to get a sampling of potential heart. One can get a sampling with an untrained if one understand a few edits to keep in mind.
--> An untrained horse can offer the intermittent style at first. Doesn't mean they have it, just means they're 'all over the place' during the competition... which is simply an acceptable fact.
--> Offer only the lower levels to see what potential heart might exist, by entering an untrained against fully trained and leveled-out horses will only ever lead to complete failure for the test for heart. This is a bit obvious.
--> The horse will be performing on pure talent, nothing else, so the sloppy returns must be evaluated with a sloppy expectation, not a honed or top-notch one. The horse IS Going To Fail... it's just how badly they do or how close they are to Not Quite Failing that the heart gets evaluated against.

I understand now! Thank-You so, so much!
I really admire you on HWO and your horses! You are helping me so much and I cannot Thank-you enough!
I will copy this link so I will always remember what the heart gene is (even if not proven).
Have a wonderful evening!

[BlackOak2]

I understand now! Thank-You so, so much!
I really admire you on HWO and your horses! You are helping me so much and I cannot Thank-you enough!
I will copy this link so I will always remember what the heart gene is (even if not proven).
Have a wonderful evening!

Like I've said before, pay it forward. Continue to help support our community for what it is and aid in it's growth while maintaining what we have.

We all need to hold onto this responsibility for our community and we do need to work to keep it as it is.

Enjoy!

[Grand Prix]

I understand now! Thank-You so, so much!
I really admire you on HWO and your horses! You are helping me so much and I cannot Thank-you enough!
I will copy this link so I will always remember what the heart gene is (even if not proven).
Have a wonderful evening!

Like I've said before, pay it forward. Continue to help support our community for what it is and aid in it's growth while maintaining what we have.

We all need to hold onto this responsibility for our community and we do need to work to keep it as it is.

Enjoy!

I am right now actually! To a friend named Peita, they want my advice for some of their QHs.
I was thrilled when they asked me I was thinking "I am now just like BlackOak! Yay!" I know I am far off but with hard work and your help I am bound to get there.

Plus my typing skills have been really improving!

[BlackOak2]

Like I've said before, pay it forward. Continue to help support our community for what it is and aid in it's growth while maintaining what we have.

We all need to hold onto this responsibility for our community and we do need to work to keep it as it is.

Enjoy!

I am right now actually! To a friend named Peita, they want my advice for some of their QHs.
I was thrilled when they asked me I was thinking "I am now just like BlackOak! Yay!" I know I am far off but with hard work and your help I am bound to get there.

Plus my typing skills have been really improving!

I have noticed that your typing has improved! It always helps when thoughts and spelling are offered well... that and any google translate used has less of a hard time... remember for want of an 'e', Team becomes a nickname for somebody and Care becomes something we drive around in. Spelling, as annoying and tedious as it is, is important.

You're good to go, to aid the community too. And don't forget, I'm not the only senior member around that can aid where you might fall a bit short. We all have weak areas that we can't get through, it's no big deal. If you come across something like that, just say so, another member should swing in and pick up where you can't.

[Grand Prix]

I am right now actually! To a friend named Peita, they want my advice for some of their QHs.
I was thrilled when they asked me I was thinking "I am now just like BlackOak! Yay!" I know I am far off but with hard work and your help I am bound to get there.

Plus my typing skills have been really improving!

I have noticed that your typing has improved! It always helps when thoughts and spelling are offered well... that and any google translate used has less of a hard time... remember for want of an 'e', Team becomes a nickname for somebody and Care becomes something we drive around in. Spelling, as annoying and tedious as it is, is important.

You're good to go, to aid the community too. And don't forget, I'm not the only senior member around that can aid where you might fall a bit short. We all have weak areas that we can't get through, it's no big deal. If you come across something like that, just say so, another member should swing in and pick up where you can't.

Why Thank-You! I have been practicing, and you always give me thorough explanations so I thought I should as well.

And I will most likely post something in chat to get different perspectives although I do like your point of view.

[BlackOak2]