Sprint racing conformation charts

[Malakai10]

So, I went and took three (former) record holders in sprint racing and a bunch of my own trained sprint racing horses, put them in order of their max times (or what I have listed as their max time, it should be mostly correct) and then made a line chart for their conformation to see if there are any trends. I think I should add more horses with slower times because it's all very stable.




New charts






Another new chart using the new formulas.... I had a lot of frustration with this until I realised that it wasn't working because my computer is set to South African/international or something like that and we use commas as decimal places, not periods, and excel couldn't recognise the game's numbers as numbers because of that.

[BlackOak2]

What I see, is that with high strength, it can overcome enough of the speed to offer forth those fast times, still.

It also kind of appears that agility can bolster or lower speed stats, but overall does not appear to affect times directly.

I am unable to see anything else in the graph, but it's quite neat to look at it like this! I think the all-conformation graph is unnecessary (those stats could be good to view when determining what stats might affect others though). And the average bar is neat, but distracting, if kept, maybe change the color?

That best time on the left, it'd be neat to see how other horses with similar stats might run. Speed and strength nearly identical with much lower agility scores.

However, these numbers only take into account the physical conformation of the horse and do not include the hard genetics (BR and stat genes). So, results could be skewed for anybody just looking at these charts and thinking this is the way to build a sprinter horse.
So, not to be used to build from scratch, but might offer insight for somebody that's already honed in their breeding and competition skills.

[Malakai10]

What I see, is that with high strength, it can overcome enough of the speed to offer forth those fast times, still.

It also kind of appears that agility can bolster or lower speed stats, but overall does not appear to affect times directly.

I am unable to see anything else in the graph, but it's quite neat to look at it like this! I think the all-conformation graph is unnecessary (those stats could be good to view when determining what stats might affect others though). And the average bar is neat, but distracting, if kept, maybe change the color?

That best time on the left, it'd be neat to see how other horses with similar stats might run. Speed and strength nearly identical with much lower agility scores.

However, these numbers only take into account the physical conformation of the horse and do not include the hard genetics (BR and stat genes). So, results could be skewed for anybody just looking at these charts and thinking this is the way to build a sprinter horse.
So, not to be used to build from scratch, but might offer insight for somebody that's already honed in their breeding and competition skills.

TBH I mostly made it because I've been thinking that conformation really doesn't seem to affect the stats all that much and I wanted to see if there appeared to be any sort of strong correlation between conformation and time — and then to see if average conformation counted more than the separate stats. I do want to get some horses that have slow times and add them to the chart... and perhaps I'll also go and do another str, spd and agl chart that also has the breeders report and HGP (although probably with modefied numbers so the chart doesn't get too big!)

I was also curious if all stats have an affect on scores but the ones listed as necessary to the competition are just weighed more heavily. Perhaps I should do an all stats graph that has 3-5 of each discipline, level 10 record holders - and then instead of the times I just list the competition they have a record in.

I actually kind of wanted to add trendlines in as well. Perhaps I'll change the average stat line to light grey and the trend lines to a slightly washed out version of the corresponding stat colour.

I should probably also do a bar graph or scatterplot instead of a line graph but oh well.

I don't suppose you know where I can find that one post that has all the breeder's comments listed in order of how good/bad they are?

[BlackOak2]

What I see, is that with high strength, it can overcome enough of the speed to offer forth those fast times, still.

It also kind of appears that agility can bolster or lower speed stats, but overall does not appear to affect times directly.

I am unable to see anything else in the graph, but it's quite neat to look at it like this! I think the all-conformation graph is unnecessary (those stats could be good to view when determining what stats might affect others though). And the average bar is neat, but distracting, if kept, maybe change the color?

That best time on the left, it'd be neat to see how other horses with similar stats might run. Speed and strength nearly identical with much lower agility scores.

However, these numbers only take into account the physical conformation of the horse and do not include the hard genetics (BR and stat genes). So, results could be skewed for anybody just looking at these charts and thinking this is the way to build a sprinter horse.
So, not to be used to build from scratch, but might offer insight for somebody that's already honed in their breeding and competition skills.

TBH I mostly made it because I've been thinking that conformation really doesn't seem to affect the stats all that much and I wanted to see if there appeared to be any sort of strong correlation between conformation and time — and then to see if average conformation counted more than the separate stats. I do want to get some horses that have slow times and add them to the chart... and perhaps I'll also go and do another str, spd and agl chart that also has the breeders report and HGP (although probably with modefied numbers so the chart doesn't get too big!)

I was also curious if all stats have an affect on scores but the ones listed as necessary to the competition are just weighed more heavily. Perhaps I should do an all stats graph that has 3-5 of each discipline, level 10 record holders - and then instead of the times I just list the competition they have a record in.

I actually kind of wanted to add trendlines in as well. Perhaps I'll change the average stat line to light grey and the trend lines to a slightly washed out version of the corresponding stat colour.

I should probably also do a bar graph or scatterplot instead of a line graph but oh well.

Although perhaps not entirely appropriate, the line graph makes it much easier on the eyes to 'See' the stats themselves. So, personally, I think this graph would work out best.

Conformation is just the icing on the cake. At least that's the way I've been looking at it. The hard gene numbers for the actual stat is where all the power and ability comes from. The conformation scores are just the... uh... 'final punch' to beat the competition (not factoring in the heart gene theory).

So, although the conformation scores chart can give us a bit of insight (into what, I'm not sure though), it's still just the cake topper on everything else the horse already has.
However, by working with a graph like this, and with enough horse data, there may be a trend to be observed, that all important balance between the four (in sprints, three) most important stats.
I would also suspect if you managed different charts, that the balance between those four stats might be different for each competition.
Did admin make it that complicated? I don't know. Perhaps. Seems like a lot of work to do something like that though.
Would I do something like that if I had this type of game? Probably. Especially if I were intending to add more types of competitions in the future or separate out certain competitions, such as sprints divided into the 5 & 6 furlong styles and the super sprints that are just a matter of hundreds of yards.
By doing it in such a way, it could allow and open up a lot more additional options in the future, because all the groundwork was already completed.

Seeing a different graph might prove useful to identifying trends.

Admin has told us that only the four selected attributes are taken into account for that discipline, so if your data seems to show something different, we may need to let admin know that something 'hinky' might be going on.

On second thought though, the all-disciplines graph might reveal to us more than a single discipline graph might. What I mean, is that an all-disciplines graph may give us some insight into what the perfect conformation might be for an all-rounder style horse.
If you need a set of all-rounders, I have a bloodline that does well in a lot of different disciplines, however, I attribute that more to the heart gene theory than the body conformation balance. Some of them really don't have good body style for some of those disciplines that they've thrashed the competition in! So, they may, in fact, be poor examples to use. -_-

Hmm... you've given me some more HWO to chew on.

[Malakai10]

TBH I mostly made it because I've been thinking that conformation really doesn't seem to affect the stats all that much and I wanted to see if there appeared to be any sort of strong correlation between conformation and time — and then to see if average conformation counted more than the separate stats. I do want to get some horses that have slow times and add them to the chart... and perhaps I'll also go and do another str, spd and agl chart that also has the breeders report and HGP (although probably with modefied numbers so the chart doesn't get too big!)

I was also curious if all stats have an affect on scores but the ones listed as necessary to the competition are just weighed more heavily. Perhaps I should do an all stats graph that has 3-5 of each discipline, level 10 record holders - and then instead of the times I just list the competition they have a record in.

I actually kind of wanted to add trendlines in as well. Perhaps I'll change the average stat line to light grey and the trend lines to a slightly washed out version of the corresponding stat colour.

I should probably also do a bar graph or scatterplot instead of a line graph but oh well.

Although perhaps not entirely appropriate, the line graph makes it much easier on the eyes to 'See' the stats themselves. So, personally, I think this graph would work out best.

Conformation is just the icing on the cake. At least that's the way I've been looking at it. The hard gene numbers for the actual stat is where all the power and ability comes from. The conformation scores are just the... uh... 'final punch' to beat the competition (not factoring in the heart gene theory).

So, although the conformation scores chart can give us a bit of insight (into what, I'm not sure though), it's still just the cake topper on everything else the horse already has.
However, by working with a graph like this, and with enough horse data, there may be a trend to be observed, that all important balance between the four (in sprints, three) most important stats.
I would also suspect if you managed different charts, that the balance between those four stats might be different for each competition.
Did admin make it that complicated? I don't know. Perhaps. Seems like a lot of work to do something like that though.
Would I do something like that if I had this type of game? Probably. Especially if I were intending to add more types of competitions in the future or separate out certain competitions, such as sprints divided into the 5 & 6 furlong styles and the super sprints that are just a matter of hundreds of yards.
By doing it in such a way, it could allow and open up a lot more additional options in the future, because all the groundwork was already completed.

Seeing a different graph might prove useful to identifying trends.

Admin has told us that only the four selected attributes are taken into account for that discipline, so if your data seems to show something different, we may need to let admin know that something 'hinky' might be going on.

On second thought though, the all-disciplines graph might reveal to us more than a single discipline graph might. What I mean, is that an all-disciplines graph may give us some insight into what the perfect conformation might be for an all-rounder style horse.
If you need a set of all-rounders, I have a bloodline that does well in a lot of different disciplines, however, I attribute that more to the heart gene theory than the body conformation balance. Some of them really don't have good body style for some of those disciplines that they've thrashed the competition in! So, they may, in fact, be poor examples to use. -_-

Hmm... you've given me some more HWO to chew on.

I would appreciate links to those horses! At the very least, it will give me a much wider variety of conformation scores! Even the disciplines that they don't do well in will be helpful because it will show the stats of a Good horse that is simply not suited to those particular disciplines
I mighr end up making charts for each discipline at this rate!
Since I'm using excel and it automatically plots the graph, I can just do a bar graph and a line graph for each discipline (although I suspect that a bar graph with trend lines will be more helpful than a line graph!) A scatterplot with this many values might be a bit hard to read... although a scatterplot that is something like one conformation score against the BR score might be helpful... hmm sort of like

Spd conformation | speed breeders report number (1 lowest, 21 highest)
17 | 3
20 | 10
23 | 10
37 | 17
40 | 18
55 | 21
60 | 19


Or else something like that. I'll have to think about it more tomorrow when it's not 2am

Perhaps I should also make a chart that compares horses relevant stats, br and hgp (and then a combination of the three - perhaps a weighted average? If I can remember how to do those lol) and try to compare it to the horses competition results... I'd have to think on how to make a chart like this but perhaps it can simply be lumped in with the other charts since I do put them in descending order of best competition results

[BlackOak2]

I would appreciate links to those horses! At the very least, it will give me a much wider variety of conformation scores! Even the disciplines that they don't do well in will be helpful because it will show the stats of a Good horse that is simply not suited to those particular disciplines
I mighr end up making charts for each discipline at this rate!
Since I'm using excel and it automatically plots the graph, I can just do a bar graph and a line graph for each discipline (although I suspect that a bar graph with trend lines will be more helpful than a line graph!) A scatterplot with this many values might be a bit hard to read... although a scatterplot that is something like one conformation score against the BR score might be helpful... hmm sort of like

Spd conformation | speed breeders report number (1 lowest, 21 highest)
17 | 3
20 | 10
23 | 10
37 | 17
40 | 18
55 | 21
60 | 19


Or else something like that. I'll have to think about it more tomorrow when it's not 2am

Perhaps I should also make a chart that compares horses relevant stats, br and hgp (and then a combination of the three - perhaps a weighted average? If I can remember how to do those lol) and try to compare it to the horses competition results... I'd have to think on how to make a chart like this but perhaps it can simply be lumped in with the other charts since I do put them in descending order of best competition results

There may be a soft number you can give to BR comments that could help define the harder score of the conformation. Such as, a number over a certain score on the BR will make the conformation score more relevant in a discipline that uses it.
IF such a soft number could be achieved, it wouldn't really tell us much, but could tell us more about what should be expected per horse. Silverine's chart might be quite helpful there. I don't have google drive, so I can only look at it, I can't access it myself for my own uses, but if you have google drive, you might find the numbers there and how the calculations work, relevant to the graph you're working on. Such as, the information for a horse that should be good in X discipline, then pounding the numbers into your graph and looking at the scores earned in the discipline... it may reveal additional information.
COULD reveal information about my horses as well. More about how strongly they perform in the 'out' disciplines then in those that they body-score well for.
Eh... maybe!

This is the matriarch of my line:
Adeline

They all come from her.

The poor thing is that I didn't keep note of the scores of those that have already gone. So there won't be much help there. But there are a number of them still alive. The important part about having my line is they're confirmed competitors and come from a line of all-rounder bred stock.

Here's the list of those still alive:
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2181193
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1853024
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2231255
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2020465
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2300237
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2755023
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2237249
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2403400
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2200052
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2120105
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2123831
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2365736
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2006531
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2006289
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2457673


These have the first set of competition tests evaluated, but haven't been given the trials, so I don't know how helpful they might be:
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2511644
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2490848
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2738141


This mare's foals: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2401449
Don't belong to me, but come from my lines and the cross was purposeful for dressage and show jumping and may be helpful:
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2611536
https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2553157
She has two others I didn't link here. The lines from these may be valuable as well, but I didn't look at them to link them.

This is another outbreed (he does not belong to me), for dressage, but has been nearly fully tested. Again, his offspring might be helpful as well: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2550594
Another outcross: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2394914

This one was an accidental breeding, I think... somebody taking advantage of my second-stud-post... I could be wrong with that, but that's what I think happened. But may be helpful anyway: https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2609804


****
That took way too long! -_-
I should make a map of that family tree so I stop going over ones that I've already opened... rather, I should just make a list of the tree by mares and stallions... I do seem to reference it often enough.

[BlackOak2]

I think that the scatterplot with the BR versus stat scores might be quite useful. May give us more of an eyeball at least, where most of the comments line up with the scores. Eh... I'd have to take a look at it to see if there's any usefulness'es in it. That would be something that may be pretty to look at, but have very little value!

As far as pulling the HGP in... I don't think that'll really help. We do appear to have a sweet spot for record holders, right between the 55k to 65k area. But I think the reason we don't really have much higher for record holders is because those that go up from there are just pretty-on-paper horses and not actual competitors. Plus, competitors breed specifically for scores (or nominally for scores) and don't put much weight on HGP, overall.
It ends up making for a much slower progress in HGP once you have horses that are hitting where you want, otherwise.
I think it's quite possible to get a high HGP horse into the winners circles (hitting records), I think it's just still at a fairly easy state that we're clearing records. 'Fairly easy' being relative. Many real records are broken only after years of breeding and hard work.
But seeing where the HGP is, would also be an interesting side-note.

And... Get some sleep when you can!

[Malakai10]

More charts

[BlackOak2]

Ahahahaha!!!

It does appear, the difference in the graph, when you move from the original ones to my horses, there is a DRASTIC difference in the skill sets!
But, I wasn't breeding for a specific set of traits either. Closest I have to that is Snow Babe, his mother and brother. And, they began a side-line of lighter-bodied runner-types.

Perhaps, maybe, strength does need to be at a minimum level to pull faster times.
(Personally, the line graph is easiest for me to read, although the bar graph is legible, in the 3-stat view)

I can see, from those charts, there is an odd-one-out, well, two. First is that high strength one Jumpin Icefloat. The second one is Wildcat Thunder. The last one, Shrouded Justice, I think those times on that end are about the high-end of average though. Pretty much anything at 00:44 seconds and over is... it's mid-level.
Wildcat Thunder's one of mine, I think? Can't even remember my own horses... I might have to reconsider her for some sprint genes.
****
Oh! Her dame was a sprinter!
-_- And I just realized that's a colt...

Very interesting chart set! But I feel like I've just gotten more out of it than you might've... I'm not sure what else to pull from it, except to say that it is, indeed, very stable on the left and has a huge instability on the right (mostly my horses, I see... almost all my horses...)

None of mine were able to break the 00:40 line. But, also, none of mine have the high sprint and high strength combo either. Except for Glorious Synthesis, which isn't performing (or wasn't performing) quite where I wanted her to. But she was bred for poles and barrels and not sprints.

Does the graph offer any insights for you so far?

[Malakai10]

Ahahahaha!!!

It does appear, the difference in the graph, when you move from the original ones to my horses, there is a DRASTIC difference in the skill sets!
But, I wasn't breeding for a specific set of traits either. Closest I have to that is Snow Babe, his mother and brother. And, they began a side-line of lighter-bodied runner-types.

Perhaps, maybe, strength does need to be at a minimum level to pull faster times.
(Personally, the line graph is easiest for me to read, although the bar graph is legible, in the 3-stat view)

I can see, from those charts, there is an odd-one-out, well, two. First is that high strength one Jumpin Icefloat. The second one is Wildcat Thunder. The last one, Shrouded Justice, I think those times on that end are about the high-end of average though. Pretty much anything at 00:44 seconds and over is... it's mid-level.
Wildcat Thunder's one of mine, I think? Can't even remember my own horses... I might have to reconsider her for some sprint genes.
****
Oh! Her dame was a sprinter!
-_- And I just realized that's a colt...

Very interesting chart set! But I feel like I've just gotten more out of it than you might've... I'm not sure what else to pull from it, except to say that it is, indeed, very stable on the left and has a huge instability on the right (mostly my horses, I see... almost all my horses...)

None of mine were able to break the 00:40 line. But, also, none of mine have the high sprint and high strength combo either. Except for Glorious Synthesis, which isn't performing (or wasn't performing) quite where I wanted her to. But she was bred for poles and barrels and not sprints.

Does the graph offer any insights for you so far?

Mostly all I've seen is that once it reaches a certain point, it appears to become mostly irrelevant — mostly it seems that you don't need to breed the highest confo stats you can get. Perhaps I should do a chart of sprint times vs average of relevant stats. An average of 40-50 between the relevant stats seem to be where sprint racing conformation is at it's ideal. tbh the most insight I've gotten from this is that i apparently do stats for fun

I've started collecting the data for confo and breeders report (starting with barrel racing then I'll work my way down the list) and that, I must admit, is very arduous to input although I suspect that it might offer more insight (once I get to sprint racing, at the very least, it should hopefuply allow me to judge whether I should discard foals that have few green/gold stats without needing to test them.)