Black/Brown Silver Pearl/Cream?

[Lekara]

I'm somewhat perplexed by this handsome fella:




I've narrowed it down to a couple options that I'm having a hard time distinguishing between.

His sire is a "Smokey Brown" (Seal Brown with CR/cr - his dam was CR/CR, so even though it's hard to tell on Seal Brown, I'm confident about that).

His dam is a Dappled Silver Roan (so Silver on Black with roan).

Due to the dappling and lightened mane and tail, I'd say he certainly has the silver. The two tough questions for me are: is he black based or brown base? And is he double cream (cream could be hiding in the black of the dam's line) or is he cream and pearl (pearl snakes its way through a lot of my lines, so I'm never really sure when it's going to pop up)?

Any help/suggestions would be appreciated. This is a tough one for me!

[BlackOak2]

...

At the very least, I can help with some of this.

Dapples come from only three genes so far on HWO: sooty, gray and silver when paired with black.
You've been around for long enough, so I think I can shorten most of this to the very basic refreshers.

Sooty occurs with the darkening of the gene, leaving the dapples untouched, or mostly untouched.
Graying gene is pretty obvious and self explanatory, but graying dapples don't appear to stay for very long.

So we're left with silver paired with black.
Then we have blue eyes. So your horse is at least a double dilute.
No roan.
But as to whether he's a double pearl or a cream and pearl, that's much more difficult to determine. Generally speaking, cream-carrying black foals will look grayish compared to non-cream black foals which appear reddish. But the roaning and the silver carried by his dam makes it too difficult for me to tell. I have very little experience to what a foal with the silver gene and also the roan gene will look like when carrying the cream gene and when not carrying the cream gene.
But I think it is a double cream that your colt has and not cream and pearl. For this reason.
These two in his pedigree:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2026764
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2026396
His grandparents on his mothers side, do offer two different foal shades. One a bit more pinkish and the other a bit more silverish. If his dame was a pearl carrier, she wouldn't have been able to hide it IF she was also a cream carrier. And if she was a pearl carrier WITHOUT being a cream carrier, she would have looked a little more like her own mother, kind of pinkish.

That's the best I can offer though.

[Lekara]

...

But I think it is a double cream that your colt has and not cream and pearl. For this reason.
These two in his pedigree:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2026764
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2026396
His grandparents on his mothers side, do offer two different foal shades. One a bit more pinkish and the other a bit more silverish. If his dame was a pearl carrier, she wouldn't have been able to hide it IF she was also a cream carrier. And if she was a pearl carrier WITHOUT being a cream carrier, she would have looked a little more like her own mother, kind of pinkish.

That's the best I can offer though.

Thank you, BlackOak!
Your sleuth work is incredible. Thank you for taking the time to look back through the generations to help me!

And also thank you with the dapples - I'm actually working on sooty dapples as a side project now, and I was aware of silver dappling black but I wasn't sure if maybe silver could dapple seal brown when it was combined with dilutions. At least that helps limit the base color pretty easily. I'll keep that in mind in the future!

Thank you!

[BlackOak2]

Thank you, BlackOak!
Your sleuth work is incredible. Thank you for taking the time to look back through the generations to help me!

And also thank you with the dapples - I'm actually working on sooty dapples as a side project now, and I was aware of silver dappling black but I wasn't sure if maybe silver could dapple seal brown when it was combined with dilutions. At least that helps limit the base color pretty easily. I'll keep that in mind in the future!

Thank you!

You're welcome!

Depending on what color release is next, some of that might change. I am both looking forward and dreading a bit that next release!

But the colors! and the combinations! Bring Them On!

Silver does only dapple black. Silver only colors mane, tail and feathers of brown, bay and wild bay. Yuppers!

[Lekara]

You're welcome!

Depending on what color release is next, some of that might change. I am both looking forward and dreading a bit that next release!

But the colors! and the combinations! Bring Them On!

Silver does only dapple black. Silver only colors mane, tail and feathers of brown, bay and wild bay. Yuppers!

I feel ya - just as soon as I finally feel I'm getting a grasp on the complexities of the colors, something new gets released. But the combinations are truly incredible!

Hopefully some day we can order genetic tests in game. That will help a lot!

[BlackOak2]

You're welcome!

Depending on what color release is next, some of that might change. I am both looking forward and dreading a bit that next release!

But the colors! and the combinations! Bring Them On!

Silver does only dapple black. Silver only colors mane, tail and feathers of brown, bay and wild bay. Yuppers!

I feel ya - just as soon as I finally feel I'm getting a grasp on the complexities of the colors, something new gets released. But the combinations are truly incredible!

Hopefully some day we can order genetic tests in game. That will help a lot!

It will and I agree!
I do wonder what they're getting caught up on... what we can test for? pricing? where it should be (everybody or upgraded only)? How it should be set up (like as an extra tab in the horse's profile)? or whether it's something a bit more complex, like coding it.
I know there are likely much more important things that are in line, but even one more paint addition and it'll likely get impossible to tell one type of gene from another (in certain cases).

[Lekara]

It will and I agree!
I do wonder what they're getting caught up on... what we can test for? pricing? where it should be (everybody or upgraded only)? How it should be set up (like as an extra tab in the horse's profile)? or whether it's something a bit more complex, like coding it.
I know there are likely much more important things that are in line, but even one more paint addition and it'll likely get impossible to tell one type of gene from another (in certain cases).

I would say that it should be open to everyone (though it would probably be ok if only upgraded accounts could test) and each individual test costs a few hundred, depending on the test (ie - cream test: $400, overo test: $600, A/a test: $250, etc). You can choose to test one gene or lots of them, depending on how much money you want to spend.
If there are ever genetic diseases in the game, that could be tested too.

Just a thought.

[BlackOak2]

I would say that it should be open to everyone (though it would probably be ok if only upgraded accounts could test) and each individual test costs a few hundred, depending on the test (ie - cream test: $400, overo test: $600, A/a test: $250, etc). You can choose to test one gene or lots of them, depending on how much money you want to spend.
If there are ever genetic diseases in the game, that could be tested too.

Just a thought.

I agree with your line of thinking. But I think I wouldn't much like it if it wasn't available for everyone.
I wouldn't mind the prices to be quite expensive, too, but, I think it's much more fair with the amounts you suggest, more in line with real pricing.

I wonder how they'll work the lethal white? That's really the primary genetic disease (if it could be called that) that I'm most interested in.

[Lekara]

I agree with your line of thinking. But I think I wouldn't much like it if it wasn't available for everyone.
I wouldn't mind the prices to be quite expensive, too, but, I think it's much more fair with the amounts you suggest, more in line with real pricing.

I wonder how they'll work the lethal white? That's really the primary genetic disease (if it could be called that) that I'm most interested in.

Ohhh, an interesting point: lethal white.
I think if they stick pretty close to genetic tests you can get in real life, that would be "fair".
I believe there is a way to check for white in real life, right?

[BlackOak2]

I agree with your line of thinking. But I think I wouldn't much like it if it wasn't available for everyone.
I wouldn't mind the prices to be quite expensive, too, but, I think it's much more fair with the amounts you suggest, more in line with real pricing.

I wonder how they'll work the lethal white? That's really the primary genetic disease (if it could be called that) that I'm most interested in.

Ohhh, an interesting point: lethal white.
I think if they stick pretty close to genetic tests you can get in real life, that would be "fair".
I believe there is a way to check for white in real life, right?

I'm pretty positive that we can really check for lethal white. But I don't know if we can check the mother for lethal, or if it's only available on the embryo before birth.
I think the problem lays in the fact there are different types of white and that they haven't fully coded the horse genome yet.
But who knows? I could be wrong.

I thought I did hear recently that they either coded (found) another white coloration gene in horses, or that a new and different mutation that has caused a new white coloration has appeared in some horse somewhere.