Question about unlocking breeds

[redster]

The short version of my question is wanting to know if you can unlock a breed with horses that are technically mixed appropriately for the breed, but read something like "Half Tarpan."

The long version goes like this...
I'm trying for Sorraia, which is [ Tarpan x Mongolian ] x [ Tarpan x West African Barb ], and normally I just cross one Tarpan/Mongolian with one Tarpan/WAB and try from there. I do know that you can get a little more creative with how exactly the breeds are mixed across the horses you're crossing, as long as they equal the ratios of the original recipe (at least, I'm pretty sure this is true?)

But, here I have one horse that is the appropriate mix of all the breeds listed above. He turned out way too husky for Sorraia, and normally I scrap failed breed mixes, but this conformation might actually really help me with future Sorraia since my results usually err on the side of being too small. So, I'm wondering if I could cross him to another failed Sorraia attempt, and possibly get a Sorraia out of the pairing. His breed only reads as "Half Tarpan" though, so I'm wondering if the game will accept this as a possibility.

I hope this explanation and my questions about it makes any sense.

This is the horse in question, if looking at him helps:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1758729

[BlackOak2]

The short version of my question is wanting to know if you can unlock a breed with horses that are technically mixed appropriately for the breed, but read something like "Half Tarpan."

The long version goes like this...
I'm trying for Sorraia, which is [ Tarpan x Mongolian ] x [ Tarpan x West African Barb ], and normally I just cross one Tarpan/Mongolian with one Tarpan/WAB and try from there. I do know that you can get a little more creative with how exactly the breeds are mixed across the horses you're crossing, as long as they equal the ratios of the original recipe (at least, I'm pretty sure this is true?)

But, here I have one horse that is the appropriate mix of all the breeds listed above. He turned out way too husky for Sorraia, and normally I scrap failed breed mixes, but this conformation might actually really help me with future Sorraia since my results usually err on the side of being too small. So, I'm wondering if I could cross him to another failed Sorraia attempt, and possibly get a Sorraia out of the pairing. His breed only reads as "Half Tarpan" though, so I'm wondering if the game will accept this as a possibility.

I hope this explanation and my questions about it makes any sense.

This is the horse in question, if looking at him helps:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1758729

Reading half or part in the breed won't affect the recipe. As long as your mixes for the recipe are correct (for the sorraia you can't use a west african barb x mongolian and cross it with a tarpan and expect a sorraia, or at least it shouldn't be possible).
The foal has to come out as a 5 star to have the chance of being the new breed (I haven't ever produced a four star foundation foal as a new breed). Many of us have found that using opposing parents (one too tall, one too short or one too heavy, one too light) that are just within or just outside of some stat work better at producing new breeds versus parents that fall entirely within. It comes down to what genes the parents have to pass on to the foal.

[redster]

Reading half or part in the breed won't affect the recipe. As long as your mixes for the recipe are correct (for the sorraia you can't use a west african barb x mongolian and cross it with a tarpan and expect a sorraia, or at least it shouldn't be possible).
The foal has to come out as a 5 star to have the chance of being the new breed (I haven't ever produced a four star foundation foal as a new breed). Many of us have found that using opposing parents (one too tall, one too short or one too heavy, one too light) that are just within or just outside of some stat work better at producing new breeds versus parents that fall entirely within. It comes down to what genes the parents have to pass on to the foal.

So, in this particular case, if I do get a female Sorraia-fail with this same breed-makeup and that is too small in all the areas that this boy is too big (which often happens for me), there is a halfway decent chance that crossing the two could result in a successful Sorraia?

(And as for the 5 star thing, that's how I'd always understood it to work too... but somehow, on either my account or my girlfriend's account, I swear we got a new Mongolian that only had a 4 star rating. We were flabbergasted, lol.)

[BlackOak2]

So, in this particular case, if I do get a female Sorraia-fail with this same breed-makeup and that is too small in all the areas that this boy is too big (which often happens for me), there is a halfway decent chance that crossing the two could result in a successful Sorraia?

(And as for the 5 star thing, that's how I'd always understood it to work too... but somehow, on either my account or my girlfriend's account, I swear we got a new Mongolian that only had a 4 star rating. We were flabbergasted, lol.)

I could always be wrong; we could be able to get 4 star new horses, I've just never produced one myself. After all, we can get 4 star out of the AC. If you come across proof of it, let us know. The more we understand, the better off our community becomes.

Remember, every foal you produce has genes that make it express who it is, but it doesn't tell you the hidden ones that aren't expressed. A great example is crossing a shetland to a belgian. The resulting foal can be anywhere within the requirements of a shetland all the way to anywhere in the requirements of a belgian, all depending on the genes that either parent actually has. If the resulting foal is all of 21 inches, matching it's shetland parent height, that certainly doesn't mean that any foals this foal produces will be short. In fact, the next generation could be a 21hh horse.
By continuing to breed and keep only the foals that match what you want, however, you will eventually breed out the 'far left' and 'far right' genes by simply them eventually not being passed on. You monopolize the genes you want and diminish the genes you don't. That's why when somebody says they're having a lot of difficulty breeding something, we suggest to breed toward what they want for awhile, even by inbreeding, because by inbreeding, you maximize the chance of passing just the genes you want.

From what I recall, Sorraia's are notorious for being difficult to breed.
Good Luck! with that endeavor.

[redster]

Haha, Sorraias are indeed a challenge. I've been at it for a while and have only been able to get three successes so far. That's why I'm hoping that keeping this overly-large mix boy will help me out, because if I can breed him to another of that same mix of breeds, it might help me have a more consistent pool to get Sorraias out of, instead of just breeding base Tarpan/Mongos and Tarpan/WABs together. The biggest thing I'd been wondering about was if breeding two "Half Tarpans" that were actually Tarpan/Mongo/Tarpan/WAB together to get a Sorraia would work, given how this game calculated things. But, it sounds by your explanation that it might work out just fine, so I'm hopeful!

And I found the 4* boy! My girlfriend had been so excited to finally breed a Mongolian of her own... and it wasn't until later that we noticed that he was apparently 0.5 points away from being 5*. We almost got rid of him, but he was sentimental to her since he was her first Mongolian success. I'm glad she decided to keep him now.

Shrike

[BlackOak2]

Haha, Sorraias are indeed a challenge. I've been at it for a while and have only been able to get three successes so far. That's why I'm hoping that keeping this overly-large mix boy will help me out, because if I can breed him to another of that same mix of breeds, it might help me have a more consistent pool to get Sorraias out of, instead of just breeding base Tarpan/Mongos and Tarpan/WABs together. The biggest thing I'd been wondering about was if breeding two "Half Tarpans" that were actually Tarpan/Mongo/Tarpan/WAB together to get a Sorraia would work, given how this game calculated things. But, it sounds by your explanation that it might work out just fine, so I'm hopeful!

And I found the 4* boy! My girlfriend had been so excited to finally breed a Mongolian of her own... and it wasn't until later that we noticed that he was apparently 0.5 points away from being 5*. We almost got rid of him, but he was sentimental to her since he was her first Mongolian success. I'm glad she decided to keep him now.

Breeding two half tarpans to each other will not result in a sorraia, regardless of their parents. However, the two half tarpans could be used to create a more acceptable tarpan x mongolian or tarpan x WAB cross that is better at producing the sorraia.

My point was that if you produced a foal that was half tarpan x mongolian, it won't affect the recipe any differently then a part tarpan x mongolian or a regular tarpan x mongolian. The problem with creating the sorraia is that it's a heavier breed than it's ingredients tend to be. Tarpans generally prefer to lean a little lighter. WAB are definitely lighter leaning, not just a lighter horse. So you're only salvation is the mongolian. But there's not enough mongolian to put enough heavier leaning into your recipe.
So generally what you get is sorraia fails that are always too light in type or size.
Finding and using a mongolian that is heavy or heavier, may help to alleviate the problem. Shrike, though a nice looking colt, will probably do very little for it though. For the fact that again, tarpans are a little more toward light-leaning then you want. The prze in the mongolian recipe didn't pass on enough of the heavy to compensate.

Such is the trials and tribulations of creating new breeds.

[redster]

Breeding two half tarpans to each other will not result in a sorraia, regardless of their parents. However, the two half tarpans could be used to create a more acceptable tarpan x mongolian or tarpan x WAB cross that is better at producing the sorraia.

Oh... I see. Yeah, what I was originally asking was whether or not a mix like my boy could be bred to another horse just like him in breed makeup to produce a Sorraia. I'd interpreted your earlier replies as meaning that it could be possible, but I see that you were addressing something else completely. So, the mix boy that I originally posted could only be used as one of the "Tarpan" parts of the recipe. And that doesn't end up actually helping my plans, because his sire is already a heavy-leaning Tarpan/Mongolian, so this mix boy wouldn't really add much to what I'm looking for.

And boy am I ever familiar with the body size struggles of Tarpans and whatnot. In fact, I think it was you who hooked me up with my big-boned Arab/Mongolian to try and help beef up my bloodlines, haha.

As for Shrike, I'd never try using him for my Sorraias. He's just my girlfriend's Mongolian who somehow appeared with 4* instead of 5*. He's not even big enough to be a Mongolian, let alone big enough to help out with Sorraia.

[BlackOak2]

Oh... I see. Yeah, what I was originally asking was whether or not a mix like my boy could be bred to another horse just like him in breed makeup to produce a Sorraia. I'd interpreted your earlier replies as meaning that it could be possible, but I see that you were addressing something else completely. So, the mix boy that I originally posted could only be used as one of the "Tarpan" parts of the recipe. And that doesn't end up actually helping my plans, because his sire is already a heavy-leaning Tarpan/Mongolian, so this mix boy wouldn't really add much to what I'm looking for.

And boy am I ever familiar with the body size struggles of Tarpans and whatnot. In fact, I think it was you who hooked me up with my big-boned Arab/Mongolian to try and help beef up my bloodlines, haha.

As for Shrike, I'd never try using him for my Sorraias. He's just my girlfriend's Mongolian who somehow appeared with 4* instead of 5*. He's not even big enough to be a Mongolian, let alone big enough to help out with Sorraia.

There is only one exception to this recipe rule. When the recipe only calls for two purebred horses (such as the Sumbawa, which requires a Sumba and a Tarpan), any of their foals can be bred together with the chance of making the new breed.

Yes, that big-boned horse did come from me. Did it help at all?

[redster]

...

Oh, interesting! So, for the Sumbawa, you could either do [Sumba x Tarpan] or [Sumba x Tarpan] x [Sumba x Tarpan]? Is that what you mean? That might be the "creative" breed arranging that I'd remembered seeing someone talking about before.

And I'm still waiting to see how the big-boned horse plays out. I'm a slow player to begin with, and I keep taking breaks from the game to deal with real-life stuff, so I haven't gotten to breed her yet.

Also! I just remembered that I've also had an instance where a new breed started out with 4* instead of 5*. My very first Sorraia girl is technically too short, but turned out anyway:

Mystify

[BlackOak2]

...

Oh, interesting! So, for the Sumbawa, you could either do [Sumba x Tarpan] or [Sumba x Tarpan] x [Sumba x Tarpan]? Is that what you mean? That might be the "creative" breed arranging that I'd remembered seeing someone talking about before.

And I'm still waiting to see how the big-boned horse plays out. I'm a slow player to begin with, and I keep taking breaks from the game to deal with real-life stuff, so I haven't gotten to breed her yet.

Also! I just remembered that I've also had an instance where a new breed started out with 4* instead of 5*. My very first Sorraia girl is technically too short, but turned out anyway:

"you could either do [Sumba x Tarpan] or [Sumba x Tarpan] x [Sumba x Tarpan]? Is that what you mean? "
That is exactly what I mean. That is the only case (any horse that requires just two recipe breeds), that the new breed can be achieved from. So it could very well be the creative breeding that you recall. I don't know, however, if a part sumba x tarpan or any mix like that will work though. I've never tried it, mostly because I'm only working with quest breedings for new breeds, so I just breed full siblings together that come down from purebloods themselves.

Plus, getting a 4* new breed is good information. It could mean that height is slightly less restrictive then we think.