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【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Nazarach »
I think because his parents both were amber Champs he could be also a bay base (wild bay because i don't see much of an offset where the black/grayish Color on his legs would've be) with champagne, as they definitly would have shown cr, it can only be Pearl (he also has really visibly freckles wich is an indicator for some Pearl involvment) - both have ancestry that could fit into that assumption, so a Bay Pearl champagne with lp would be my guess
E_ A_ prl/prl Ch Lp/n Z/n
I'm pretty sure he is a classic cream - meaning black base (no mealy in his foalpictures) and one champagne + 1cream (his eyes were blue as a foal but are dark now, it's pretty caracteristic) his shade is also really similiar to one of my own pseudo-whites, just one dillute less that made her mane lighter if you want to compare the foal Pictures http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1363822
So something along
E_ a/a Cr/n Ch/n
I could be wrong on both accounts, but from what is visible these would be my guesses
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by BlackOak2 »
I believe Forever Statue is a gold cream. Champagne and a single cream on chestnut. Remember that pearl can't hide when paired with creams. If he had a hidden pearl in his pedigree, since he inherited the single cream, his coat would've appeared as a pseudo-white or nearly so.
Spiral Echo appears to be a classic cream. Champagne and a single cream on black.
I don't think either of these lines have any hidden pearl. But I could always be wrong, dilutes are yet not my strong suit.
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Ziel »
Nazarach wrote:I think because his parents both were amber Champs he could be also a bay base (wild bay because i don't see much of an offset where the black/grayish Color on his legs would've be) with champagne, as they definitly would have shown cr, it can only be Pearl (he also has really visibly freckles wich is an indicator for some Pearl involvment) - both have ancestry that could fit into that assumption, so a Bay Pearl champagne with lp would be my guess
E_ A_ prl/prl Ch Lp/n Z/n
I'm going to have to agree with Nazarach on this one - according to this guide I tend to use, a Double Pearl Champagne horse would look a lot like a Single Cream Champagne horse, but will have very visible freckling, which he definitely has. I've produced a number of Gold Creams, and he's far too dark in both coat and mane for that - so I think Metallic Silver Wild Bay Pearl Champagne is probably correct!BlackOak2 wrote: I believe Forever Statue is a gold cream. Champagne and a single cream on chestnut. Remember that pearl can't hide when paired with creams. If he had a hidden pearl in his pedigree, since he inherited the single cream, his coat would've appeared as a pseudo-white or nearly so.
Nazarach wrote:I'm pretty sure he is a classic cream - meaning black base (no mealy in his foalpictures) and one champagne + 1cream (his eyes were blue as a foal but are dark now, it's pretty caracteristic) his shade is also really similiar to one of my own pseudo-whites, just one dillute less that made her mane lighter if you want to compare the foal Pictures http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1363822
So something along
E_ a/a Cr/n Ch/n
I could be wrong on both accounts, but from what is visible these would be my guesses
Welp, there's a consensus there!BlackOak2 wrote:Spiral Echo appears to be a classic cream. Champagne and a single cream on black.
Thanks for your help guys. <3
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Baranduin Brewster »
That horse is actually a Silver Classic Champagne if you look at the foal picture, there is no evidence of a bay based on it (no dark legs), there is also no evidence of a brown coat (no different color in the flank/belly/muzzle).
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Here is a picture of a Silver Double Pearl with Champagne on Black
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Ziel »
That "Classic Champagne" you've linked looks... nothing like what "Classic Champagne" is, as listed in this guide: http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... =13&t=2158Baranduin Brewster wrote:That horse is actually a Silver Classic Champagne if you look at the foal picture, there is no evidence of a bay based on it (no dark legs), there is also no evidence of a brown coat (no different color in the flank/belly/muzzle).
Horses Name
Here is a picture of a Silver Double Pearl with Champagne on Black
I have a Classic Champagne horse:
Your horse you linked that is "Classic Champagne", as 【ℤA】Forever Statue, shows pangare in their foal picture - which, black horses do NOT have pangare as foals. They're solid-colored.
Amber Champagne already dilutes the dark markings on the legs, so I can't help but wonder if further dilution would make them nigh-impossible to see...
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Baranduin Brewster »
Actually, the silver gives the the Classic Champagne the muddy color, and black based foals that have silver do carry pangare and it can show as an adult as well.Ziel wrote:That "Classic Champagne" you've linked looks... nothing like what "Classic Champagne" is, as listed in this guide: http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... =13&t=2158Baranduin Brewster wrote:
That horse is actually a Silver Classic Champagne if you look at the foal picture, there is no evidence of a bay based on it (no dark legs), there is also no evidence of a brown coat (no different color in the flank/belly/muzzle).
Horses Name
Here is a picture of a Silver Double Pearl with Champagne on Black
I have a Classic Champagne horse:
Your horse you linked that is "Classic Champagne", as 【ℤA】Forever Statue, shows pangare in their foal picture - which, black horses do NOT have pangare as foals. They're solid-colored.
Amber Champagne already dilutes the dark markings on the legs, so I can't help but wonder if further dilution would make them nigh-impossible to see...
Here is a Silver Dapple that as a foal does have Pangare
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Nazarach »
But Forever Statue has no silver in his adult form - which your horse had - so I think wild bay base makes more senseBaranduin Brewster wrote:
Actually, the silver gives the the Classic Champagne the muddy color, and black based foals that have silver do carry pangare and it can show as an adult as well.
Here is a Silver Dapple that as a foal does have Pangare
Horses Name
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Baranduin Brewster »
Actually he does have silver (mane/tail is silver), if you're referring to the lack of dapples, dapples do not always show up with silver.Nazarach wrote:But Forever Statue has no silver in his adult form - which your horse had - so I think wild bay base makes more senseBaranduin Brewster wrote:
Actually, the silver gives the the Classic Champagne the muddy color, and black based foals that have silver do carry pangare and it can show as an adult as well.
Here is a Silver Dapple that as a foal does have Pangare
Horses Name
And since the cream gene lightens the coat with the horse, Forever Statue is way to dark to carry double pearl. There is a simple test, breed him several times to a double cream, and the foal will not be a single cream + pearl. This will force the pearl gene to show (which it will not).
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Nazarach »
ok, that was worded badly, I meant he has no silver pangaré in his adult form, and foals that have silver pangaré tend to keep it, so if it vanishes it isn't pangeré because of silver but normal foal-pangaré which vanishes (and i know that black silvers don't anlways have dapples as i have a few myself).Baranduin Brewster wrote:
Actually he does have silver (mane/tail is silver), if you're referring to the lack of dapples, dapples do not always show up with silver.
And since the cream gene lightens the coat with the horse, Forever Statue is way to dark to carry double pearl. There is a simple test, breed him several times to a double cream, and the foal will not be a single cream + pearl. This will force the pearl gene to show (which it will not).
I agree that breeding him would be the best way to find out the pearl. As I mentioned, I'm not that sure but can only say what I know from the guides and his really visible freckles are more common in double pearls...
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Re: 【ℤA】Help with color? (Updated Sept 18)
Post by Baranduin Brewster »
Not always true, I have been breeding for non pangare in the adult form for my Silver Dapple Appaloosa line, but here is a dapple version of the Silver Classic ChampagneNazarach wrote:ok, that was worded badly, I meant he has no silver pangaré in his adult form, and foals that have silver pangaré tend to keep it, so if it vanishes it isn't pangeré because of silver but normal foal-pangaré which vanishes (and i know that black silvers don't anlways have dapples as i have a few myself).Baranduin Brewster wrote:
Actually he does have silver (mane/tail is silver), if you're referring to the lack of dapples, dapples do not always show up with silver.
And since the cream gene lightens the coat with the horse, Forever Statue is way to dark to carry double pearl. There is a simple test, breed him several times to a double cream, and the foal will not be a single cream + pearl. This will force the pearl gene to show (which it will not).
I agree that breeding him would be the best way to find out the pearl. As I mentioned, I'm not that sure but can only say what I know from the guides and his really visible freckles are more common in double pearls...
Horses Name
Compare the foal pictures, both are nearly the same. And mine has no pearl and is black based as dapples only appear on black horses (unless sooty dapple, which he doesn't have) because he is black and he isn't pearl.
I did think this was a double pearl for a very long time, as it is confusing. If you think about what silver does to black horses it changes the coat color of black based horses makes it yellowish when applied to the cream gene and apricot when pearl, it does make sense. Regardless of the pearl issue, there is no evidence of bay markings on him (or brown/chestnut base) as a foal, so that would leave him as black based.
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