Closed Thread.

[Avrielle]

Most of those fillies did come out pretty well and I agree with the rehome one. Too much HGP loss and stat loss even with the decently resulting conformation.

As for the last one, that will really depend on you what space you have and how your breeding program works. For me, I always keep 12 mares of one breed (24 for Arabians because of my above described method of conformation breeding). If one of my fillies can't compare with the best 12 (or 24) of the fillies and mares of that breed and I don't have an extra slot open due to a mare dying of old age, then I would rehome her.

I will say that that filly does fit close enough into the proper Stamina ranges for everything except face length. Being off in one area of conformation isn't too bad, but it still all comes down to your available space and how you run your breeding program and if you don't mind waiting and seeing if she can have foals with a longer face length. In a lot of cases the results may not come out as you like, but I've had the occasional surprise offspring from horses like that, that turned out wonderfully.

[PeacefulOreo]

I've been working on Arabians too. Right now, the only features missing on mine are a thick jowl and a deep flank.

congrats on breeding to true form.. cant say that i am doing that right now, but certainly admire all the players that have that goal....

certainly a project worth watching

[buzzy]

Hey Royale! May I goin? I breed all my Arabs for color and high HGP. Here is a example of one of my spotted Arabs:

Buzzy, i'm not really starting up anything here, just extremely appreciative of all the help i can get.
However, this is a public forum, and of course you are more than welcome to join in

whatever you decide to do... a little competition is always healthy, right? and ive certainly got no complaints with working together either

oh... and nice horses and well done on that elusive green movement stat



all the very best,
Royale



ps - i might be in want of a partner eventually.. so keep you in mind?

A little competition is healthy
Thank you for noticing my movement stats, it is all work and progress type of situation! And do keep me in mind for a partnership

[BlackOak2]

This is why I like the forums, things get saved to be over-read when we can sit down and take the time to look through them carefully.
I suspect this will be a long post. And also, some of what I'll say will likely be repetition, but repetition is a key learning tool. Feel free to tell me when you get tired of hearing certain points.

This is about the third or forth time that ive written out a response for this post... but each time something else has come up and of course... it wasnt saved....
hence, im afraid that this version will be considerably sorter than my original - but guessing that information is sort of irrelevant now...
BlackOak, before i start - thanks a million for this!
now, regarding the colts: already, as you have pointed out, colts certainly are not my priority right at the moment, so the only reason for keeping them is if they are amazing
My opinion was the same for the first and second colt, and thanks so much for your advice- and the depth! that you went into with the third colt... i will definitely be trying this out...

Isn't that the way it goes... I had that problem in chat when at first I couldn't figure out how to whisper! Hah! But it's no big deal, the gist of what you'll write, regardless of how many times we're forced to write it (really aggravating for me, I HATE rewriting stuff, strong words but it's true, for me at least) will always come through. That's true for me as well. Often times, I'll copy and paste into word, just in case of power outage or some other nondescript annoying situation...

The community is here to help. If it wasn't me, it would've been another player.

Not everybody keeps colts for stud purposes. I'm one of the (I'm suspecting) relatively few who keeps closed bloodlines, so a good stud is just as important as a good mare being produced from my own bloodlines. This may change in the future when we can brood out our mares without having to transfer them to another farm. If closed bloodlines aren't a problem, then there are plenty of quality studs that could fit almost every need available on market. That being said, if your lines produce a great colt, one shouldn't immediately cull it because of it's sex. I think you got that point already though.

I want to ensure that my descriptions and reasons why each foal would be keep or cull is fully understood. Plus, I don't want to make the decisions for you, after all it's your breeding project and not mine, so you should have the final say, always. Then at the same time, you'll get some further insight into how other successful breeding projects progressed (at this moment, I must thank Avrielle for such an in-depth description of their success of their project as well). Now that you already understood the breeding on the game, what you appeared to need the most, is some guidance to fine-tune your own, personal breeding theory. Each one of us will have their own theory that works best for them. In fact, my two farms and each one of my projects actually have separate theories that I use; it all comes down to what I'm breeding toward. But each of my fine-tuned theories share very similar basics. That's what I'm imparting to you, those shared basics. This way, any project you tackle in the future, you'll always know where to start.

(your responses from the foal responses I gave)

I don't want to just skip this and think I ignored your responses or forgot them. Not that there is much to add.
It is important that both parents stats reflect in the foals stats. They can tell you many things, such as what types of genes the parents carry, both good and bad, how these genes marry together (the foals outcome stats), and what might need to be avoided (stats that reflect strong conformation but poor genes). However, just because a foal has a very poor outcome from both of it's parents, doesn't necessarily mean that the foal is a failure. Like we've been discussing, certain conf scores and certain report comments can reflect what the foal carries, therefore having a 'weaker' foal outcome from both parents may be a better outcome for your herd, if said foal appears to have a stronger gene compilation than either parent.
For some reason, I think you need a little example. Though I don't have an actual example, I can give you a functional one:
Thus we have parents with report comments of stamina:
Your stallion could run all day and not be tired!
Your mare has a lot of endurance.

With conf scores of (let's say):
54 for stud
52 for mare

But the foal comes out:
This fillies endurance is higher than average.
With a conf score of:
38

Even though this filly appears to be much less than either parent, she could in fact be much a better gene-carrier. She shares a green comment with both parents, but has a weaker conf score, which could very well mean that the genes she inherited from both parents were strictly stamina genes and not stamina and conformation genes. Though she looks rather sickly on paper, the genes she'll pass on to her offspring are arguably stronger than the genes she received from either parent separately.

I don't know how possible my example is, it is after all, just an example.

That being said, comparing stats to the parents does come into heavy play and should be considered when looking to replace a breeding horse, either a stud or a mare. So, what should be considered for replacements? Such things as matching stats for either could be considered a replacement, but that will only offer you a keeping average of your bloodlines, not necessarily an improvement. You should consider never replacing a breeding horse with an offspring that has breeding report comments below what you already have. For instance, never replace an average comment with a negative comment (that's pretty much something you never want to do, unless your aim is the low GP project). However, considering all of the report comments in unison can be considered over any single report comment. For instance, you went from a non-colored good speed comment to a gold speed comment, but went from a gold movement comment down to a green movement comment. In this case, this offspring could still be considered a strong replacement breeding horse. These replacement offspring should always be considered for every foal. Once an adequate replacement is found, every successful foal from that breeding pair is icing on the cake. I've had a couple breeding matches that have thrown successive, beautiful replacement-type foals. So what's the grading value of foals? Cull would be a E rank foal, those that fail both parents. Cull would also be a D rank foal, those that fail one of two parents. C rank foals would be those that match but don't improve upon either parent (the 'average' student). B rank foals are successful foals that improve upon either parent or most often, improve upon different stats of both parents. A rank foals are foals that equal or improve upon the stats of both parents. Breeding replacement foals must at least equal A-rank on ONE parent (they'd be considered B rank foals, really). But I always strive for A rank replacement foals, foals that equal or improve upon the stats of both parents in unison.
You can expect every match to throw a C rank foal. But sometimes the combination doesn't mix well and it'll give you a couple cull foals. That doesn't guarantee that the pair is a bad mix, it could just mean that they do have weaker genes and that particular foal just got the worst from both for that breeding. However, this will offer insight into just how bad the genes both parents could be carrying. In essence, you'll learn the lowest ends of the genes your breeders carry, so even these cull foals have a use.

1656699 - This filly is what I mean by 'smack-dab' in the middle. She takes a couple of the really good from her sire (the better parent), yet remembers to eye up the best of the mare (the weaker parent), marked by the movement comment (even if it appears that it comes from conf rather than genes). I like this filly, she's not the best Ladies Man has given you, however she may be the best the mare can offer up. This filly would be the 'mare replacement' in my projects. Often I would retire the dam after an offspring like this. Definitely a keeper in my opinion.

and there you go, answering one of my unasked questions.. a shocking habit that i have with breeding is that i use the same mares over and over until they die, then all i end up with is a million middle aged horses - newborns all with similar, if not poorer stats than their mares! so, my take from this is to have a certain number of carefully chosen mares, and once a better foal is recieved, replace them?

I'm pulling this one out specifically, although I think you answered your own question later in this topic, I want to ensure you understand it thoroughly since you did ask the question.

Yes, carefully choose your breeding mares for your breeding project. A mare that fits one project won't necessarily fit another. This you already know. But if a stud must be carefully chosen, the mare must be much more selectively looked over, because a stud can have thousands of foals in his lifetime, but a mare is very restricted, she may have as little as 13 foals, or possibly less (considering how long she carries, if she's bred on her fourth birthday and if she dies the moment she has her foal after she turns 17 years). So the mare and her successor must be acceptable, there shouldn't be compromise like there can be with studs.
However, with that said, if the mare immediately throws a successor on her first couple foals, she doesn't need to be immediately replaced. Maybe her genes are just that good, or the pairing that great. Having a couple that exceed 'A rank' may be a better option, depending on what they carry and if those genes are important to you. COI can have an impact on this, so can room on your farm and overuse of stud...
However, after answering your question, there is one exception I have to share to you. Foundation stock (easy because the arabian can be purchased as an AC stock horse) mares and even studs can be used and 'made-into' what you need for your breeding project. It takes longer to take a base like this and transform it into usable stock for your project, but there are a lot of good that this can have on your project. First and foremost is the no COI it injects, secondly (which in my opinion is just as important), is the clean genes it offers. If you're working with AC stock, they're very limited to what genes they can offer. Blooded stock can have AC stock genes mixed in at any time at any place in their ancestors and can pop up if mixed with the 'wrong' genes anywhere down the line ('suddenly bunny-ears' comes to mind, which in some reports are hazardous to breed back out).

1656700 - I don't like this filly from Ladies Man. This is probably one of the worst I've seen him throw so far. She's got some good points: tempo, balance, agility; but these are expected when the mare shows the same strengths in the same spots as the stud. Speed and strength is arguably perhaps stronger than some of his other foals, but this filly fails in stamina in my opinion. It's just a failure foal. I would cull her. Her full sister is much better than she is. I'd move this mare on to another stud, but that's my opinion.

woah. okay, showing up my ignorance, here, i honestly thought that this was a good - if not great - foal..... i liked her especially becuase of her high ranking stamina Breeding comment, without even havin the gold - so i was thinking that she has a lot of potential to go higher. which is more important, the color of the breeding report comment or the 'ranking/positivity' of the breeding report comment? now im just assuming that his conformation of 49 stamina pulled the comment up?

I also want to pull this one specifically out.
Again, I think you answer your own question later, but I want to emphasis it anyway.
I think that the conf score is what pulled this comment up. My point for suggesting to cull this filly is because Ladies Man offered you much better, much more often than this filly shows. Which means if you scale all of his foals on a bell scale, she would fall at the far left (the worst of the worst). She may still pull (in that classroom) A grades, but she carries perhaps the worst genes that Ladies Man has to offer, at least in stamina. Which means (in the real world), she would be a good competitive mare, but wouldn't offer better foals than Ladies Man without being paired with a better stud than Ladies Man. When paired with this mare, another full-sibling foal offered a much better offspring, it means that this pairing can do much better than this foal. This is the reasons that I suggested she was a cull foal.
As for the direct question: 'which is more important?... color or positivity'. I would say that it depends on some other factors, including your breeding project and also on the stats of the parents. Dropping a single grade for a comment isn't a big deal (gold to green, green to positive, positive to neutral)... As long as the other parent shows the drop as well. Both parents show green of the same comment, then that comment dropping to positive, no-color, is a problem unless both parents have green comments and really high conf scores and the foal has a positive, no-color comment with a really low conf score (in this case, it's not a big problem, but might be a success and not a failure).
Likewise, if one of the parents is green and the other gold, then the foal could still be acceptable of it comes out with a green. However, without the above exception, a positive, no-color comment is a failure. In my book, the strong genes in this case have not been passed on, rather the weakest genes have been passed on.


***********

Don't forget, that the BR posts comment is how it appears to come out. Some of those comments overlap with one another, for instance, 'This stallion/mare has great stamina.' may actually share the same non-conformation scores (for HGP) that
Your stallion/mare could run all day and not be tired!
Your stallion/mare has a lot of endurance.
One thing this stallion/mare isn't lacking is stamina!
This stallion's/mare's endurance is higher than average.
All of these do. What I mean and the way that these non-conformation scores are worked out is this:
Example Only
If Stamina can have a score between 0-10 (0 being weakest)
This comment: This stallion/mare has great stamina. may be used for points between 5-8.
This comment: Your stallion/mare could run all day and not be tired! may be used for points 7-9
This comment: This stallion's/mare's endurance is higher than average. may be used for points 5-6
This comment: Your stallion/mare has a lot of endurance. may be used for points 5-8.
So we were warned by Larisar that many of these comments across the breeders report share and overlap many of the same scores of each individual stat. This is to ensure the highest possibility for nobody to map out the comments scores, therefore keeping the breeding evenly 'guess-work' in areas that it should remain a bit unknown.
So choosing one comment over another is left for the breeder and their particular experience, needs and desires.

The BR post is laid out the way the comments most appear to lean toward. However, it as a very good basic map to rely on, as long as we remember to take our salt with it.

and again, as mentioned above, thanks to your help BlackOak, (correct me if im wrong) - a positive, especially a colored BR comment with a low score has the most potential. a high score, and a BR comment neutral = not good

sorry - im kind of rambling now i think...

was just looking up the balance for speed in throughbreds... am im blown away from the below horse:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1512511
with the second highest ranking BR comment for speed, and a conf score of 63...

i think i just answered my own question


but when building up the score, im thinking that the higher color/(in comparison to the higher comment with lower color), with a lower score is better?
thats very likely very confusing sorry....

I agree, and have been using this theory: 'a positive, especially a colored BR comment with a low score has the most potential' for myself and have experienced a lot of success with it. Even without an upgraded account and not reading any of my own breeding stock conf scores, just be reading the HGP score and the breeding report, offers me just enough insight to continue with this theory. HGP is the 'numbered' score of the Breeders Report; the Breeders Report takes both the genes and the conf scores into the equation. The Conformation Score is only how the horse is built and not the genes of the horse.

'a high score, and a BR comment neutral = not good ' This is only handy if you choose to breed only for conformation. But this limits you to how high a conf score you can get, because it's limited to the genes the horse has, however, a bit of luck comes into play, because the highest conf scores will be uplifted by not just conformation but also by genes. If the bloodlines aren't closed, then breeding out to high scores will naturally lift both genes and conformation, however, having strong genes will naturally open the ability to have a much higher conf score, once fine-tuning begins.

That is a nice thoroughbred. Speed is decent, very good. I like him better for his temp, agility and even balance genes. Great, strong comments but considerably low conf scores. He has even proven himself by breaking a record. This is the type of genes that we're striving for. Even though this colt has a 61,000 HGP, considerably lower from the top horses at 70 plus HGP, he has broken a record that those other horses have not. This is a good example of building upon good genes to open up higher conf scores can offer. Once good genes are in the blood, fine-tuning for conformation allows the horse to compete at optimum levels. Plus I like the fact that his predecessors weren't competed, so his competitive bloodline is relatively unknown.

Higher color with lower score is 'greater/better' than higher comment with a lower score. If only because we don't know exactly where each comment precisely falls. However, if you experience having more success with better foals being thrown with one comment over another comment, by all means use the 'lower' comment. You may in fact, have it right.

***************
Now for the next set of foals you had drop.

next bach of foals have arrived:

main stud:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1615317

colts:

Fillies:
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1668217
With a little training, she'll grow into quite a strong filly. Your filly is about as fast as average. Wow, you'd be making a mistake not to compete in endurance events with this filly! Boy that filly moves well, she should do pretty well for you. This filly is as regular as clockwork. This filly could do ballet she has such perfect balance! Appears to be a very agile filly, should do good for you. Bloody filly is smart! Too smart!
Gold: Stamina Tempo Balance Intelligence
GP: 59
Speed 25
Strength 22
Stamina 61
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 38
Movement 50
Agility 27
Tempo 33
opinion: as can be expected using this stud, the genes are actually quite low, but conformation high. However, she has kept the gold color, and seems - in my opinion at least, have a decent BR comment. she has kept the speed consistent, but strength has dropped. balance is fair, movement good, agility has unfortunately dropped. tempo is lower than her mares, but that can be expected as the studs tempo is quite low. the only BR color that has dropped is her agility... personally, i think she is a keeper.

I agree with your comments for her, except to say you verbally have it backwards 'the genes are actually quite low, but conformation high', (unless you're talking about stamina). The genes on her other than movement and stamina appear quite good, with much less conformation aiding in the report comments. That said, your outcome is still correct. I don't like the movement stat at all, and tempo is... not ... perfect, but she would be acceptable in my herd as well.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1668221
This filly seems as strong as average. Your filly is quick on her hooves. This filly has an extraordinary amount of endurance! That's one fine mover. When it comes to tempo, your filly is pretty average. I haven't seen this filly trip once. This filly is very spry! Your filly is as bright as an honor student.
Gold: stamina, intelligence
GP: 58
Speed 27
Strength 26
Stamina 61
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 34
Movement 55
Agility 26
Tempo 36
opinion: as can be expected, this filly has carried across intelligence, and inherited the conf scores (=comment and color) of stamina from the stallion.her speed is weak, but good in comparison to her parents, same applies for strength. movement i think i great, but agility and balance is horrid. i dont think i like her enough...

I agree with your opinion, except I'm not excited about that movement conf score being that high when the comment isn't even colored, to me this means that ALL of her breeding report movement comment is based on conf score (all being subjective as there are genes involved, in this case I mean the genes are about as weak as possible).
She is a win over her mother, but still a failure overall. I would expect a better foal from this match. I agree she is a cull foal.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1668220
instant rehome.

I agree, without question.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1668208
Not all horses can be strong. Unfortunately, your filly is one of those. Well, her natural speed is good. Might want to consider racing this one. This one can keep going forever! Doesn't even break a sweat. Your filly moves like the rest of them. This filly is as regular as clockwork. This filly could do ballet she has such perfect balance! Appears to be a very agile filly, should do good for you. If this filly were in school, she would get straight As!
gold: Stamina Tempo Balance Intelligence
Speed 34
Strength 19
Stamina 51
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 41
Movement 43
Agility 34
Tempo 29
GP: 57
as far as the breeding report goes, shes not too bad, increasing the strength of stamina of the mare but has dropped a little in agility. she has, thankfully, carried on a little of her speed from the mare (the studs speed is very low) strength is horrible.
balance, movement and tempo arent good, but arent horrid either. agility bad, but both parents arent great so understandable. perhaps keep he, but only use strong stallions. cull if become overpopulated

I have mixed feelings on her, just like you do. In this case, I look into what other foals this mare has produced, but considering this is her first 'average-keeper', I would hold on to her as well, just like you considered. As soon as she produced a better foal, from this stud or another, I'd rehome this filly. I suspect she will throw a better filly, when matched with an appropriate stud; she does have enough going for her (gold comments), that I think she's capable of giving you better foals.

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1668212
I wouldn't get your hopes up about this one, she's rather weak. Well, her natural speed is good. Might want to consider racing this one. This filly has great stamina. This filly is very cautious and gracious when she moves. Your filly keeps time well. This is one balanced horse! This filly isn't very agile nor is she stiff. Your filly is sharp as a tack.
Stamina (Tempo) (Balance) Intelligence
GP: 58
Speed 18
Strength 30
Stamina 61
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 39
Movement 47
Agility 27
Tempo 29
her BR report is improved from the mares, but dropped from what the stud was in tempo and balance (which the mare did not have) but agility didnt get color, dispite being a postive report. Speed is shocking, but strength is surprisingly good at 30. balance is well, balnced, movement is good. agiligy conf isnt good, but genes i think have boosted. tempo average. i personally think keep her - but i wouldnt know

Again, I agree with you on your comments. One must at least expect an averaging out between the two parent reports, anything leaning toward the better stat of whichever parent is a win. Although her speed comment isn't colored, her speed score is almost dropped out of notice (at 18)... She may have inherited the best speed genes that either parent carried, as best as they could mix-it-up anyway.
She's not great, but she's far from horrible and the best point is, except for strength, she has improved upon her mother. She would be a mare replacement filly and I would consider breeding her to either a gene-stabilizing stud or to super-studs.
This is what happens when we use perhaps 'sub-par' stock into our bloodlines, however, we can improve and make good use of even 'sub-par' stock, especially when we've already put a lot of work into them. We get attached to some of them, even if they look UGLY!

http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1668219
I wouldn't get your hopes up about this one, she's rather weak. Your filly is about as fast as average. Your filly seems to have a good amount of stamina. Your filly moves like the rest of them. Who needs a watch when you've got this filly, she's got great tempo. Nice filly! Really knows how to keep herself balanced. I've never seen such an agile horse! Your filly is sharp as a tack.
Tempo Balance (Agility) Intelligence
Horse Genetic Potential: 60,067
Speed 18
Strength 27
Stamina 49
Intelligence Conformation does not affect Intelligence
Balance 49
Movement 45
Agility 33
Tempo 34

i'm torn with this one - i think its a rehome... her mother didnt have any color/decent stat, but even with the sires high stamina, she didnt inherit it - and considering its mostly conform, not genes, i dont think she is worth keeping?

still more to be added... but i have to go and dont want to risk loosing what ive written!

She does look alright on paper, doesn't she? I would have expected a colored stamina, and with her mother's positive, non-colored stamina comment, I would have expected a green. She is a great improvement over her mother, at least on paper (HGP) but appears to pull much of her comments from her conf scores and not from genes. Although she's a nice 'paper' outcome, I agree with your first thought, she's a cull filly. She would be a conformation horse and not a gene horse, therefore she is limiting the upper end of her conf scores for her foals. If you were at the far end of your project and was at that time 'fine-tuning' your herd, she might be worth keeping to open up those conformation scores, however, if born from that herd at that time, I suspect her conf scores to be much higher across the board (with the exception of speed and strength).

This stud you used is alright. Not great, not bad, when paired with your horses. His strengths appear to be Conf in Movement (very big), part in stamina, part in balance. His weak areas are speed (although he appears to have some okay genes in this area), Big weakness in strength (probably in both conf and in genes, but that's no surprise). He does appear to have decent, quality genes in stamina and balance, as well as alright averaging capability for the genes related to tempo and agility.
I would consider him as a good arabian stud, and I think he'll give you the conformation you lack in stamina. However, as for genes, I would use him only for the best mares in your herd to increase their conformation for that stamina trait, solely. I think he'll end up pulling down some of the genes you're trying to keep steady in movement and strength and speed.

So, really long! Hah!

Hope you enjoyed!

[Avrielle]

Very interesting read and certainly a lot more work and thought put into each and every new foal than I put in. Makes me feel kind of lazy lol.

As for the stud I am letting Royale use, he really isn't that great HGP or comments wise. He is mostly a conformation horse meant to quickly boost the Stamina conformation in horses and to remain alive just in case Stamina conformation needs some bad fixing later on down the road. He is a good 50+ generations removed from my current Arabian line.

I'm not sure if Royale's overall goal is to breed a perfect Endurance competitor, or simply to have high stamina conformation for the sake of it or for other competitions, but unfortunately that is the highest stamina conformation horse that I can offer to help at the moment >.<. Otherwise my current Arabians average more around 58-62 stamina so that they can average 40+ speed conformation.

[BlackOak2]

Very interesting read and certainly a lot more work and thought put into each and every new foal than I put in. Makes me feel kind of lazy lol.

As for the stud I am letting Royale use, he really isn't that great HGP or comments wise. He is mostly a conformation horse meant to quickly boost the Stamina conformation in horses and to remain alive just in case Stamina conformation needs some bad fixing later on down the road. He is a good 50+ generations removed from my current Arabian line.

I'm not sure if Royale's overall goal is to breed a perfect Endurance competitor, or simply to have high stamina conformation for the sake of it or for other competitions, but unfortunately that is the highest stamina conformation horse that I can offer to help at the moment >.<. Otherwise my current Arabians average more around 58-62 stamina so that they can average 40+ speed conformation.

I've been breeding since I signed up on my other account (about three months before this one), so my theory has evolved since then. Depending on what my goal is, I do take a look at all of these things and consider if they're important to my breeding project, or not important. Right now, on my leopard tarpans, they are not important, as long as I don't drop below 30 HGP, the reports are nominally negligible (that will be changing very soon, however, for the next stage of my project). Although I'm breeding mainly for color on this account, I have some decent genetically sound stock on the other one. Granted, it's taken me much longer to get where I'm going, but that's because I'm breeding for conformation looks and genetic ability at the same time, at least on that other account, it's very different on this one. I have a cull rate much like you do, about 90 % and that's the same on that other account, in fact, it's almost twice as high over there (okay, maybe I exaggerate a little, but really, not by much). I'm finally getting a half-way decent base to 'start' from over there.
But I digress.

What we've been working toward and what I've been attempting to aid Royale, is to help the horses break over the (what appears to be) stuck stamina conf stat scores that they have. But without a good genetic base, the stat scores can only climb so high, this is what we're focusing on. A number of positive conformation points can certainly increase the stat scores, but if you have low genetics, it can only add so much to that score. For instance, if your genetic score starts at 20 and your conf score can add 20, you get 40... but you could get a much higher number if your genetic score starts higher. That's simply an example.

I like your stud, for the reasons I offered before and apparently for the same reasons you appear to like him also. He has great conformation scores in stamina and must have some decent genetic ability in stamina as well. But if he's paired with a mare that isn't genetically sound, he can't do anything to help fix that in areas like strength and speed and also in movement. I would consider him a type of stud to 'finish' a breeding project, or fine-tune certain areas. You're correct, and I pinned him as you said, he's a conformation stud. He's got very good stamina conformation points. I would expect a conformation stud, fine-tuned for just one stat to offer just what he offers, strong outcomes in that one stat with almost any mare.

I certainly hope (and by your post I don't think you have) you didn't take offense to my comments on your hard work in creating your stud. I think he can produce well (or maybe already has) with some of Royale's mares (not all of the foals have been posted yet). But that's part of the breeding process, not all matches that look good on paper, produce the quality foals one could expect. Then again, having some mix of random genetics can do as much good as keeping them out. It just depends on how they interact.

[Avrielle]

I've been breeding since I signed up on my other account (about three months before this one), so my theory has evolved since then. Depending on what my goal is, I do take a look at all of these things and consider if they're important to my breeding project, or not important. Right now, on my leopard tarpans, they are not important, as long as I don't drop below 30 HGP, the reports are nominally negligible (that will be changing very soon, however, for the next stage of my project). Although I'm breeding mainly for color on this account, I have some decent genetically sound stock on the other one. Granted, it's taken me much longer to get where I'm going, but that's because I'm breeding for conformation looks and genetic ability at the same time, at least on that other account, it's very different on this one. I have a cull rate much like you do, about 90 % and that's the same on that other account, in fact, it's almost twice as high over there (okay, maybe I exaggerate a little, but really, not by much). I'm finally getting a half-way decent base to 'start' from over there.
But I digress.

What we've been working toward and what I've been attempting to aid Royale, is to help the horses break over the (what appears to be) stuck stamina conf stat scores that they have. But without a good genetic base, the stat scores can only climb so high, this is what we're focusing on. A number of positive conformation points can certainly increase the stat scores, but if you have low genetics, it can only add so much to that score. For instance, if your genetic score starts at 20 and your conf score can add 20, you get 40... but you could get a much higher number if your genetic score starts higher. That's simply an example.

I like your stud, for the reasons I offered before and apparently for the same reasons you appear to like him also. He has great conformation scores in stamina and must have some decent genetic ability in stamina as well. But if he's paired with a mare that isn't genetically sound, he can't do anything to help fix that in areas like strength and speed and also in movement. I would consider him a type of stud to 'finish' a breeding project, or fine-tune certain areas. You're correct, and I pinned him as you said, he's a conformation stud. He's got very good stamina conformation points. I would expect a conformation stud, fine-tuned for just one stat to offer just what he offers, strong outcomes in that one stat with almost any mare.

I certainly hope (and by your post I don't think you have) you didn't take offense to my comments on your hard work in creating your stud. I think he can produce well (or maybe already has) with some of Royale's mares (not all of the foals have been posted yet). But that's part of the breeding process, not all matches that look good on paper, produce the quality foals one could expect. Then again, having some mix of random genetics can do as much good as keeping them out. It just depends on how they interact.

No offense taken at all! Was more of an explanation as to why I offered that stud over something I currently have like this guy http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1667256.

But I do agree that having a good genetic base early on helps and I can definitely understand wanting to find studs that solidify that.

[BlackOak2]

No offense taken at all! Was more of an explanation as to why I offered that stud over something I currently have like this guy http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/1667256.

But I do agree that having a good genetic base early on helps and I can definitely understand wanting to find studs that solidify that.

Wonderful! You know, sometimes I'm never sure.

That stud is what [we] are trying to eventually get up to (if not in look, at least in report). A good base and solid golds.

The problem that I find, is when I use a top-of-the-line breeder that has stats like him, it's difficult to tell if it's good genes, or good conformation. That's why I like using horses that top out on HGP around the upper 50's. That way there isn't too many gold-pushed comments that are directly made from conformation and just pure, high HGP.
Ah, but you realize that.

Starting a little lower on the HGP scale at the very least reveals strong genes better and once you have them, HGP rises relatively quickly. Of course, I like using mid 40's for my own stock when testing them. But that's me, that's not other people. Or even AC Stock! Hah!

You picked a good stud, it certainly helped find some weaknesses Royale's mares had. Thank you!

[BlackOak2]

I did some research work for you. I think these studs I found on market you should run a conf evaluation on and look into what they might have to offer for you. I broke them down as well.

AC Stock: I'm only offering these as new blood stock, if you have no interest in them, just skip over them. Keep in mind, these id numbers are sometimes from the very early stages of the game, so their genes are even cleaner (some don't even have Lp, maybe not graying... especially this first one.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/2175
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/12439

Average HGP stock: really stock that matches HGP numbers of AC stock, but they may be useful even as is.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/9795
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/163988
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/85832

40's HGP
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/335154
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/128047

50's HGP
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/396191

60's HGP
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/680173
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/912111
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/715561

2 60's & 1 70's HGP that have their eval's posted and may be one's to give a try.
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/614728
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/613907
http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/715374

I have two more, one that has a unique comment that should appear in arabian blood (perhaps only related to this type and size of horse's) and the other one I think I really like and depending on the conf eval, may be a pretty decent stud for your goals.
Unique Comment: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/662037
The one I really like: http://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/231360

Take your time going through them. These have been on the market for awhile, so their owners may not be around to recharge their energies. Depending on if they've already been bred, you may get only 10 foals from any of them. If you decide on any of them but are unsure about which mares might be appropriate, we can take a look at matches as well.

Enjoy!

[Lcameron]

i have some really nice studs if ou would like to see them in the project barn