Community Forum
The Beaming Fields
-
Callen
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:36 pm
- Visit My Farm
The Beaming Fields
Beaming Fields
I have given into Ezekiel's prodding and am starting up my own personal farm log. It will include links to certain data, color references, and updates on projects. While chatting is allowed, I'd prefer all viewers would "stick to the sidelines" and ping me elsewhere if it is absolutely necessary.
Let the logs begin!
Cheers!I have given into Ezekiel's prodding and am starting up my own personal farm log. It will include links to certain data, color references, and updates on projects. While chatting is allowed, I'd prefer all viewers would "stick to the sidelines" and ping me elsewhere if it is absolutely necessary.
Let the logs begin!
~Callen
-
Callen
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:36 pm
- Visit My Farm
Color Logs & References
Dapples
"You can, of course, get dapples by breeding silver blacks (and greys I think?), but I don't know if they are related to these sooty dapples. I think larissar said that the (sooty) dapple gene was only in one breed (which seems to be turkmene)."
"Gray dapples and sooty dapples are completely different and unrelated to each other and also to the black silver."
> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9466
"Dappling in this game happens when you have a black coat with the silver gene (either homozygous or heterozygous for Z). This can also happen for dilutes which offer dapples on creamy-colored, or yellow-colored coats (can also make the dappled coat appear pinkish). In order for the dapples to appear, the horse must have a black coat (E), but can be heterozygous or homozygous for black and also as long as the coat carries no agouti, along with at least one gene for silver. A horse that has no black or is negative for black would be ‘ee’ and would be a chestnut and appear with a red coat. In addition, the black, agouti negative horses can carry the dun gene and still express dapples, sometimes called dappled grullo. However, any horse carrying agouti or chestnut will not express dapples; chestnut cannot express silver regardless of being a carrier or homozygous, they can however, express flaxen and is the only coat able to do so.
Gunmetal is defined as a dark gray color that may already be showing dapples. These foals seem to keep their coat coloration with little to no change. To date I have had very few of these born and in fact, have only one recorded for this study.
Sooty Red is defined as a reddish or yellowish tinge under a sooty or black ash with mealy (pangare). When dappled, seems to usually scale 3 and up. Sooty Red can also shed out to be silver brown (I did not capture any for bay or wild bay, so I do not know if they could also shed out as these). Please bear in mind that when I use the word sooty, I do not do so to indicate the sooty gene, just to help describe the sooty coloration.
Creamy is defined as lightly tinged from pale red or pale yellow to almost white-cream usually with a pink coloration and no sooty or black ash or mealy (pinkish coloration is often found along the base of the mane and the base of the tail, it can also look like the hair roots are red, this is usually an indication of a racing stripe for the dun gene). Creamy looks to shed out to a light ‘silver’ with no to light dappling, usually scaled 1 to 3. Creamy can also shed out to be silver brown (again, I did not capture any for bay or wild bay, so I do not know if they could also shed out as these).
Pale Red is defined as definite reddish or yellowish tinge with mealy (pangare) and no sooty or black ash (mealy may only be defined by the lighter coloration on the nose and again, I use this to describe the foal coloration and not to give an indication that the foal has the mealy or pangare gene). Pale Red can also shed out to silver bay, silver wild bay or silver brown (all able to show dun). It seems that most of the Pale Red foals are actually not a black horse, but rather an agouti carrying horse, at least it seems that way in my herd." > viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9386
"A Quick Summary:
Sooty Dapples Master Switch (turns on the appearance of dapples on sooty)
- only available in one breed
Sooty Dapples Strength (3 main genes, in same breed as master switch gene)
In order for dapples to appear on Sooty then Sooty must also appear.
Sooty Summary:
- 4 Master Switch genes found in 3 breeds, and very rarely in 4 other breeds
- 4 expression genes (help to determine over what areas of the horse the sooty will appear), found in 3 breeds and very rarely in 4 other breeds)
- 4 strength genes (help to determine how much sooty appears in the areas where sooty has been determined to appear) found in most breeds to varying degrees
- 1 progression gene (helps to determine how quickly the sooty effect will progress, some breeds will appear sooty faster while others could take their entire life for sooty to appear), Fast Sooty found in 5 breeds, while Old Sooty found in all breeds.
Hint: The breed carrying the Dapple Master Switch is one which rarely appears sooty itself. 1 in 4 horses will carry the gene, but it's a Simple Dominant so only one copy is needed. The gene has been in the game since the beginning so it's possible there could be a horse living now with sooty dapples." (May be out-of-date due to the posting time)
"Dapples often show up on Silver Blacks and has nothing to do with sootiness, which doesn't even occur on Black horses if I remember correctly.
Silver Blacks come in all shades, some don't even have dapples, and some have crazy dapples"
> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4511
Leopard
"The LP switch gene - is what causes any leopard patterns to appear.
> Only 1 gene with 2 alleles, which means two variations of the LP gene exists: "on" and "off".
__- One copy of the "on" variation gives sharp edges between white and solid coloured areas.
__- Two copies of the "on" variation give small spots and "freckled" edges between white and solid coloured areas.
__- All horses with at least one copy will varnish roan with age, even without any pattern genes.
* Pattern genes - create the large white patterns on the horse.
> 26 genes with 2 to 4 alleles, which means there are 26 different genes for white pattern with 2 to 4 variations
> each.
__- All breeds in the Adoption Centre can carry one or more of the pattern genes even if they are not visible.
__- 2 breeds from the Adoption Centre can carry the PATN1 gene, which causes the most white on the body.
__- It has been confirmed that black based horses (including bay/brown) are less likely to express extended white pattern compared to chestnut based horses.
* Spot size genes - determine the size of the spots.
> 2 genes with 4 and 2 alleles, which means one gene has 4 variations and the other has 2 variations.
__- There are 4 different sizes of spots.
__- All breeds from the Adoption Centre carry the normal size gene.
__- 2 breeds are hiding the medium and large spot genes. Forest horse is one of them.
__- Horses can express two different sizes of spots at the same time to various degrees. Often normal, medium or
__- large combined with small spots.
* Spot density genes - increase or decrease the density of spots.
> 1 gene with 100 elleles, which means only 1 gene exists with 100 different variations.
__- All breeds from the Adoption Centre carry sparse density.
__- 2 breeds are hiding genes for extremely dense spotting. One of them is arabian.
* Snowflake density genes - determines if a horse develops snowflakes and the density of them.
> 2 genes with 3 to 100 alleles. (Possibly) one gene with 3 variations and the other with 100 variations.
__- All breeds from the AC can develop snowflake spots.
__- 1 breed from the AC is hiding high density genes and another breed is hiding extreme density genes.
__- Snowflakes are not visible from birth but develop with age.
* Varnish roan genes - determine how much a horse will varnish when carrying the "on" variation of the LP gene.
> 20 genes with 2 to 100 alleles, which means there are 20 different genes with 2 to 100 variations each.
__- Some breeds from the AC are prone to more varnish and others are more subtle.
__- Varnish roan is not present at birth, it will express itself more as the horse grows older.
* Appaloosa bronzing gene - is a gene that makes a black coat bronze out with age to look more like a chestnut.
> 1 gene with 100 alleles, which means there is only 1 gene with 100 variations of bronzing.
__- The bronzing gene also affects black areas in bay/brown horses." > viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9416 (I highly suggest this thread, though it may be out-of-date, it still has interesting findings and may help some)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35257&p=344758#p344758 < This specific thread holds many useful pictures illustrated by Malakai10
Dun
"The term dilution is defined as 'a gene that lightens a base color'. These dilution genes generally include (but may not be limited to): Dun, Cream, Pearl, Champagne, Silver, White, Gray. Of these, Gray is not technically a dilution gene but acts similar to them if only by the definition of 'lightens the base color'; and white (considering what genes are at work) is actually a color separate from other bases but acts 'on' them, or 'over' them.
The dun gene is a dominant gene, meaning that it only takes one to offer an expression. It is also a simple dominant meaning that one or two of this gene does not change its expressions. Dun is often expressed at birth and can be seen as a stripe of brighter coloration along the spine of the foal (it often makes a bright color on the base of the mane and tail as well). This dorsal stripe or racing stripe can be carried into adulthood (but isn’t necessarily kept). Other hints on the dun gene is zebra markings on the horse’s legs and fetlocks or also on the horse’s back or also on the horse’s neck, or also on their ears, or also on their hip and butt (thigh) area, a noticeable line or a color shift on the neck, and sometimes only offers a darker facial mask and legs as well as on the fetlocks (looks a bit like roan without the lighter versus darker hair distribution over the rest of the body). These hints or signs of dun can be seen completely separate of one another, but usually are seen in conjunction with others. Very rarely are all the signs expressed at once.
Alongside the dun gene, the coats can also express roan and pangare making it that much more difficult to define what expressions a horse’s coat offers. Among these two additional genes, roan can very easily hide the dun hints and dun can very easily hide pangare. Knowing what the parentage genetics offer is sometimes the only way to define what the offspring has. Especially if you understand and know exactly what genes they have, then the offspring is limited to what they can have inherited.
(Base color dun definition)
Chestnut – generally the dun gene on chestnut coats makes them appear washed out. This base coat color is probably the hardest sometimes to tell if the dun gene is affecting the coat as a very gently expressed dun on chestnut may look just like a regular chestnut. However, the reverse side of this coin can allow a chestnut horse with the dun gene to look almost like a bay or a wild bay.
Nominally, unless the foal also carries flaxen, the striped tail and mane generally disappear beneath the already bright red coloration and the dorsal stripe can be extremely hard to distinguish. Generally speaking, the dun gene does lighten the foal color and also will offer the facial mask, however, just because the foals have the lighter coat and the facial mask, it doesn’t mean that the foal definitely has dun. This is just a further indication that dun is probable. On the other hand, foal coat patterning can change drastically and what the foal looks like it has at birth may not be genetically true.
Black – black dun is known as grullo (or grulla depending on your spelling preferences, it can be separated by male versus female since the word ‘grullo’ is actually a Spanish word and not an English translation). The dun gene on black will turn the coat a gray color from a gentle (that has to be black, but why isn’t it black-black?) coloration to a very expressive light gray, mimicking the gray coloration on brown, bay and wild bay coats with dun (in real life, it’s considered a mouse-gray or mouse-tan coloration; we do not have that type of expression on the game). Grullo can also express dapples from the silver gene. I am leaving out any dappled coats from the silver gene (they can be found in my first study).
Dun on black-based foals can lighten their coats far more than the other colors. It also seems that most foals will also offer fetlock and leg color shifts alongside facial masks. However, there doesn’t seem to be much expression for foal dorsal stripes or mane and tail stripes even when silver affects the coat. There does seem to be correlation between what shade the foal is and what shade the adult coat is. I will separate these by light versus dark.
Brown – usually turns coats gray with brown colored points with a tan or yellow stomach line. Brown appears to have three separate foal phases, the pale phase, the red phase and the dark phase which may or may not be directly the result of the dun gene. Though these phases appear to often run into each other, they will, for the most part, describe the type of adult coat they’ll offer. The pale phase appears to be heavily affected by baby pangare and makes the foal coat look creamy in color, with the only real difference of the cream gene offering a yellow baby coat while this pale phase brown dun offers a pale tan color. Pale phase foals seem to always offer the gray-colored adult coat. The red phase comes across as a normally colored brown foal coat that appears to a chestnut foal except with a brown mane and. This red phase also offers a washed-out appearance to the body of the foal that is probably directly caused by the dun gene. This is the dun body mask. Red phase foals appear to almost always offer the gray-colored adult coat. The dark phase resembles the red phase except that it carries minimal or no dun body mask. These dark phase foals seem to offer coats that can appear as a normal brown coat instead of gray in color.
Bay/Wild Bay – usually turns coats grayer in color or offers a very washed-out bay or red tinge. Unlike the brown coat color, the bay and wild bay coats don’t seem to offer defined phases related to adult coats." > viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11515
Flaxen
"Flaxen is recessive. This means you need two of these for the horse to show flaxen. Flaxen also will only show when paired with chestnut. This means two things. First, blacks, bays, wild bays and browns will never show flaxen, regardless if they have it or not. And second, two flaxen chestnut horses will always have a flaxen foal.
Also, as another side note to leg flushing. It appears it is partially affected by the strength of the flaxen, insofar as the stronger the flaxen is (the brighter it displays), the stronger the flushing also is. Although it appears that different strengths of flaxen offers different heights of flushing on the leg, this appears to be mostly illusion. The leg flushing is limited by the strength of the flaxen gene itself, however, the interesting side note to this, is that the strength that's flushed by flaxen on the legs IS slightly offset from the flaxen in the mane and tail. What does this mean? Two identical horses with identical genes could have slightly different leg flushing strengths." > viewtopic.php?f=13&t=39914
Black
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19942 > Overall great illustrations and easy to understand
Other
http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... 46#p135646 < Feathers
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37251 < Mane & Tail Genetics
Of course, direct shout-outs can be made if one finds their information linked here and wishes to be given full credit.
I also allow any use of this straightforward post to be used in references/guides. Most data was found lurking in the What Colour Is My Horse? forum.
Questions can be made on this thread regarding this post.
"You can, of course, get dapples by breeding silver blacks (and greys I think?), but I don't know if they are related to these sooty dapples. I think larissar said that the (sooty) dapple gene was only in one breed (which seems to be turkmene)."
"Gray dapples and sooty dapples are completely different and unrelated to each other and also to the black silver."
> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9466
"Dappling in this game happens when you have a black coat with the silver gene (either homozygous or heterozygous for Z). This can also happen for dilutes which offer dapples on creamy-colored, or yellow-colored coats (can also make the dappled coat appear pinkish). In order for the dapples to appear, the horse must have a black coat (E), but can be heterozygous or homozygous for black and also as long as the coat carries no agouti, along with at least one gene for silver. A horse that has no black or is negative for black would be ‘ee’ and would be a chestnut and appear with a red coat. In addition, the black, agouti negative horses can carry the dun gene and still express dapples, sometimes called dappled grullo. However, any horse carrying agouti or chestnut will not express dapples; chestnut cannot express silver regardless of being a carrier or homozygous, they can however, express flaxen and is the only coat able to do so.
Gunmetal is defined as a dark gray color that may already be showing dapples. These foals seem to keep their coat coloration with little to no change. To date I have had very few of these born and in fact, have only one recorded for this study.
Sooty Red is defined as a reddish or yellowish tinge under a sooty or black ash with mealy (pangare). When dappled, seems to usually scale 3 and up. Sooty Red can also shed out to be silver brown (I did not capture any for bay or wild bay, so I do not know if they could also shed out as these). Please bear in mind that when I use the word sooty, I do not do so to indicate the sooty gene, just to help describe the sooty coloration.
Creamy is defined as lightly tinged from pale red or pale yellow to almost white-cream usually with a pink coloration and no sooty or black ash or mealy (pinkish coloration is often found along the base of the mane and the base of the tail, it can also look like the hair roots are red, this is usually an indication of a racing stripe for the dun gene). Creamy looks to shed out to a light ‘silver’ with no to light dappling, usually scaled 1 to 3. Creamy can also shed out to be silver brown (again, I did not capture any for bay or wild bay, so I do not know if they could also shed out as these).
Pale Red is defined as definite reddish or yellowish tinge with mealy (pangare) and no sooty or black ash (mealy may only be defined by the lighter coloration on the nose and again, I use this to describe the foal coloration and not to give an indication that the foal has the mealy or pangare gene). Pale Red can also shed out to silver bay, silver wild bay or silver brown (all able to show dun). It seems that most of the Pale Red foals are actually not a black horse, but rather an agouti carrying horse, at least it seems that way in my herd." > viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9386
"A Quick Summary:
Sooty Dapples Master Switch (turns on the appearance of dapples on sooty)
- only available in one breed
Sooty Dapples Strength (3 main genes, in same breed as master switch gene)
In order for dapples to appear on Sooty then Sooty must also appear.
Sooty Summary:
- 4 Master Switch genes found in 3 breeds, and very rarely in 4 other breeds
- 4 expression genes (help to determine over what areas of the horse the sooty will appear), found in 3 breeds and very rarely in 4 other breeds)
- 4 strength genes (help to determine how much sooty appears in the areas where sooty has been determined to appear) found in most breeds to varying degrees
- 1 progression gene (helps to determine how quickly the sooty effect will progress, some breeds will appear sooty faster while others could take their entire life for sooty to appear), Fast Sooty found in 5 breeds, while Old Sooty found in all breeds.
Hint: The breed carrying the Dapple Master Switch is one which rarely appears sooty itself. 1 in 4 horses will carry the gene, but it's a Simple Dominant so only one copy is needed. The gene has been in the game since the beginning so it's possible there could be a horse living now with sooty dapples." (May be out-of-date due to the posting time)
"Dapples often show up on Silver Blacks and has nothing to do with sootiness, which doesn't even occur on Black horses if I remember correctly.
Silver Blacks come in all shades, some don't even have dapples, and some have crazy dapples"
> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4511
Leopard
"The LP switch gene - is what causes any leopard patterns to appear.
> Only 1 gene with 2 alleles, which means two variations of the LP gene exists: "on" and "off".
__- One copy of the "on" variation gives sharp edges between white and solid coloured areas.
__- Two copies of the "on" variation give small spots and "freckled" edges between white and solid coloured areas.
__- All horses with at least one copy will varnish roan with age, even without any pattern genes.
* Pattern genes - create the large white patterns on the horse.
> 26 genes with 2 to 4 alleles, which means there are 26 different genes for white pattern with 2 to 4 variations
> each.
__- All breeds in the Adoption Centre can carry one or more of the pattern genes even if they are not visible.
__- 2 breeds from the Adoption Centre can carry the PATN1 gene, which causes the most white on the body.
__- It has been confirmed that black based horses (including bay/brown) are less likely to express extended white pattern compared to chestnut based horses.
* Spot size genes - determine the size of the spots.
> 2 genes with 4 and 2 alleles, which means one gene has 4 variations and the other has 2 variations.
__- There are 4 different sizes of spots.
__- All breeds from the Adoption Centre carry the normal size gene.
__- 2 breeds are hiding the medium and large spot genes. Forest horse is one of them.
__- Horses can express two different sizes of spots at the same time to various degrees. Often normal, medium or
__- large combined with small spots.
* Spot density genes - increase or decrease the density of spots.
> 1 gene with 100 elleles, which means only 1 gene exists with 100 different variations.
__- All breeds from the Adoption Centre carry sparse density.
__- 2 breeds are hiding genes for extremely dense spotting. One of them is arabian.
* Snowflake density genes - determines if a horse develops snowflakes and the density of them.
> 2 genes with 3 to 100 alleles. (Possibly) one gene with 3 variations and the other with 100 variations.
__- All breeds from the AC can develop snowflake spots.
__- 1 breed from the AC is hiding high density genes and another breed is hiding extreme density genes.
__- Snowflakes are not visible from birth but develop with age.
* Varnish roan genes - determine how much a horse will varnish when carrying the "on" variation of the LP gene.
> 20 genes with 2 to 100 alleles, which means there are 20 different genes with 2 to 100 variations each.
__- Some breeds from the AC are prone to more varnish and others are more subtle.
__- Varnish roan is not present at birth, it will express itself more as the horse grows older.
* Appaloosa bronzing gene - is a gene that makes a black coat bronze out with age to look more like a chestnut.
> 1 gene with 100 alleles, which means there is only 1 gene with 100 variations of bronzing.
__- The bronzing gene also affects black areas in bay/brown horses." > viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9416 (I highly suggest this thread, though it may be out-of-date, it still has interesting findings and may help some)
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35257&p=344758#p344758 < This specific thread holds many useful pictures illustrated by Malakai10
Dun
"The term dilution is defined as 'a gene that lightens a base color'. These dilution genes generally include (but may not be limited to): Dun, Cream, Pearl, Champagne, Silver, White, Gray. Of these, Gray is not technically a dilution gene but acts similar to them if only by the definition of 'lightens the base color'; and white (considering what genes are at work) is actually a color separate from other bases but acts 'on' them, or 'over' them.
The dun gene is a dominant gene, meaning that it only takes one to offer an expression. It is also a simple dominant meaning that one or two of this gene does not change its expressions. Dun is often expressed at birth and can be seen as a stripe of brighter coloration along the spine of the foal (it often makes a bright color on the base of the mane and tail as well). This dorsal stripe or racing stripe can be carried into adulthood (but isn’t necessarily kept). Other hints on the dun gene is zebra markings on the horse’s legs and fetlocks or also on the horse’s back or also on the horse’s neck, or also on their ears, or also on their hip and butt (thigh) area, a noticeable line or a color shift on the neck, and sometimes only offers a darker facial mask and legs as well as on the fetlocks (looks a bit like roan without the lighter versus darker hair distribution over the rest of the body). These hints or signs of dun can be seen completely separate of one another, but usually are seen in conjunction with others. Very rarely are all the signs expressed at once.
Alongside the dun gene, the coats can also express roan and pangare making it that much more difficult to define what expressions a horse’s coat offers. Among these two additional genes, roan can very easily hide the dun hints and dun can very easily hide pangare. Knowing what the parentage genetics offer is sometimes the only way to define what the offspring has. Especially if you understand and know exactly what genes they have, then the offspring is limited to what they can have inherited.
(Base color dun definition)
Chestnut – generally the dun gene on chestnut coats makes them appear washed out. This base coat color is probably the hardest sometimes to tell if the dun gene is affecting the coat as a very gently expressed dun on chestnut may look just like a regular chestnut. However, the reverse side of this coin can allow a chestnut horse with the dun gene to look almost like a bay or a wild bay.
Nominally, unless the foal also carries flaxen, the striped tail and mane generally disappear beneath the already bright red coloration and the dorsal stripe can be extremely hard to distinguish. Generally speaking, the dun gene does lighten the foal color and also will offer the facial mask, however, just because the foals have the lighter coat and the facial mask, it doesn’t mean that the foal definitely has dun. This is just a further indication that dun is probable. On the other hand, foal coat patterning can change drastically and what the foal looks like it has at birth may not be genetically true.
Black – black dun is known as grullo (or grulla depending on your spelling preferences, it can be separated by male versus female since the word ‘grullo’ is actually a Spanish word and not an English translation). The dun gene on black will turn the coat a gray color from a gentle (that has to be black, but why isn’t it black-black?) coloration to a very expressive light gray, mimicking the gray coloration on brown, bay and wild bay coats with dun (in real life, it’s considered a mouse-gray or mouse-tan coloration; we do not have that type of expression on the game). Grullo can also express dapples from the silver gene. I am leaving out any dappled coats from the silver gene (they can be found in my first study).
Dun on black-based foals can lighten their coats far more than the other colors. It also seems that most foals will also offer fetlock and leg color shifts alongside facial masks. However, there doesn’t seem to be much expression for foal dorsal stripes or mane and tail stripes even when silver affects the coat. There does seem to be correlation between what shade the foal is and what shade the adult coat is. I will separate these by light versus dark.
Brown – usually turns coats gray with brown colored points with a tan or yellow stomach line. Brown appears to have three separate foal phases, the pale phase, the red phase and the dark phase which may or may not be directly the result of the dun gene. Though these phases appear to often run into each other, they will, for the most part, describe the type of adult coat they’ll offer. The pale phase appears to be heavily affected by baby pangare and makes the foal coat look creamy in color, with the only real difference of the cream gene offering a yellow baby coat while this pale phase brown dun offers a pale tan color. Pale phase foals seem to always offer the gray-colored adult coat. The red phase comes across as a normally colored brown foal coat that appears to a chestnut foal except with a brown mane and. This red phase also offers a washed-out appearance to the body of the foal that is probably directly caused by the dun gene. This is the dun body mask. Red phase foals appear to almost always offer the gray-colored adult coat. The dark phase resembles the red phase except that it carries minimal or no dun body mask. These dark phase foals seem to offer coats that can appear as a normal brown coat instead of gray in color.
Bay/Wild Bay – usually turns coats grayer in color or offers a very washed-out bay or red tinge. Unlike the brown coat color, the bay and wild bay coats don’t seem to offer defined phases related to adult coats." > viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11515
Flaxen
"Flaxen is recessive. This means you need two of these for the horse to show flaxen. Flaxen also will only show when paired with chestnut. This means two things. First, blacks, bays, wild bays and browns will never show flaxen, regardless if they have it or not. And second, two flaxen chestnut horses will always have a flaxen foal.
Also, as another side note to leg flushing. It appears it is partially affected by the strength of the flaxen, insofar as the stronger the flaxen is (the brighter it displays), the stronger the flushing also is. Although it appears that different strengths of flaxen offers different heights of flushing on the leg, this appears to be mostly illusion. The leg flushing is limited by the strength of the flaxen gene itself, however, the interesting side note to this, is that the strength that's flushed by flaxen on the legs IS slightly offset from the flaxen in the mane and tail. What does this mean? Two identical horses with identical genes could have slightly different leg flushing strengths." > viewtopic.php?f=13&t=39914
Black
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=19942 > Overall great illustrations and easy to understand
Other
http://www.horseworldonline.net/forum/v ... 46#p135646 < Feathers
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=37251 < Mane & Tail Genetics
Code: Select all
Chestnut
indicated by e
double chestnut only (e/e)
can hide agouti or even double agouti
when paired with a black, any agouti foals reveals the agouti gene it carries
can only throw chestnuts with chestnuts
Black
indicated by E
black can throw only black or red, not agouti (E/e or E/E)
black is always a/a for agouti (no agouti)
when a suspect double black is paired with a chestnut, it should always only through black or agouti, never chestnut
when a black throws an agouti, it came from the other horse
double blacks can throw agouti with chestnuts which means the agouti is on the chestnut
double blacks will never throw chestnuts
Agouti (black/brown/bay)
agouti is always on black or double black only
agouti can only have one red or two black genes
Agouti and red agouti can offer an agouti, a black or a chestnut with a chestnut horse
Agouti and red if agouti offers a black with a chestnut horse, it means it has only one agouti gene
Agouti and red if agouti offers a chestnut with a chestnut horse, it means it has only one black gene
Agouti and red if agouti offers agouti with a chestnut and it's dominant over the shown agouti, this agouti came from the other horse
Agouti and black if agouti offers red with a black horse, then they both carry a single chestnut gene
Agouti and black if agouti offers black with a black horse, it means it has only one agouti gene
Agouti and black single agouti with double black will only offer a single agouti OR a black, never chestnut
Agouti and black a double agouti with a double black will always produce agouti (with single or double black)
Agouti and black agouti double black with a double black will always produce double blacks and agouti double blacks
Wild Bay
indicated by A+
can have bay or brown in conjunction
wild bay can have bay or brown offspring
differs from bay by only having black fetlocks, not past the ankle
I wonder if the combination of bay and wild bay genes offers a middling of the black legs, instead of really high versus really low
Bay
indicated by A
can have brown in conjunction
bay can have brown offspring But Not wild bay
Brown
indicated by At
brown can not have bay or wild bay offspring
Countershading & Coat Affects
Graying
indicated by G
dominant arabians only
has over 40 'helper genes'
controls rate of graying, dappling, stages & how quickly
Dun
indicated by D
dominant
Roan
indicated by Rn
dominant
Silver
indicated by Z
dominant
Flaxen
indicated by f
recessive
Pangare
indicated by P
dominant seems to offer a lighter color right on the flank
Sooty
indicated by Sty
dominant 4 master switch genes found in 3 breeds and very rarely in 4 other breeds
4 expression genes (area of coverage), found in 3 breeds and rarely in 4 others
4 strength genes found 'in most breeds to varying degrees'
1 progression gene, fastest found in 5 breeds, but slowest found in all breeds
Sooty With Dapples
master switch in only one breed
dominant
3 strength genes also in just that one master switch breed
must have both sooty and dapples to appear
master switch breed rarely appears sooty & 1 in 4 horses will carry the gene.
Metallic
indicated by Sh
incomplete dominant
Eye Genes
Tiger Eye
indicated by Tg
co-recessive with champagne
Dilutions
Cream
indicated by Cr/n
dominant seems to turn the coat, or parts of the coat yellow or a tannish-yellow
incomplete recessive on black, which makes it look a bit like a silver dapple (no dapples), or even a silver grullo
shows dark skin and dark eyes with one gene
shows pink skin and blue eyes with two genes
pearl a single cream cannothave pearl
2 Creams seems to turn chestnut and bay coats a white-yellow, or a 'true cream' color
black and brown coats turn a 'desert brown' color, dull pale goldish
all manes are light, not white or silver, but not black or dark
shows pink skin and blue eyes
not champagne if the horse is not champagne and the eyes are not clearly dark, the horse is either double cream or pearl and cream
2 Pearls
indicated by pr/n
resessive shares locus with cream
pearl can be mistaken for double cream, except pearl offers darker manes and dark eyes
on chestnut, looks the same as 2 creams on chestnut, except shows pink skin with dark eyes, not blue eyes
two single creams a single or double pearl can never come from two single creams
single cream & solid a double pearl can never come from a single cream regardless of the other color
two solids can produce a double pearl, each parent is single pearl carrier
one solid & double dilute can produce a double pearl, each parent is single pearl carrier
two double dilutes can produce a double pearl, each parent is single pearl carrier
Cream/Pearl
essentially double cream, but seems to look like lighter versions
Champagne
indicated by Ch
dominant always offers freckles
offers gold-colored coats to chestnut and bay
offers a washed out brown/gray color to blacks and browns
one or two copies of this gene does not offer a change in appearance
Cream/Champagne
always offers freckles and has a lighter mane, not white or silver and not dark or black
on black, offers a very pale 'gray' coloration, with darker mane and tail than coat
on brown, still offers the classic brown areas around stomach, with darker mane and tail than coat
chestnut appears with a lighter mane and tail than the coat
bay appears with the darker mane and tail then coat
always has dark eyes with pink skin
Double Cream/Champagne
always has freckles, though they can be very pale
always has blue eyes
look like pale versions of single cream/champagne horses
has much lighter manes and tails that look gray or almost whitish in color
Tri-Dilutes
carry one cream and one pearl, with one or two champagne genes
always have light colored or light blue eyes and pale freckles
look very similar to double cream/champagne horses
may only distiguish these through knowing what genes the parents carry
Dappling
Dappling is caused by sooty, by graying and by silver on a black coat only
Appaloosa
Appaloosa Explanation
can carry PATN and not show (no Lp), can have Lp but not show PATN I wonder if it's the black belgians that carry the agouti extension
Lp leopard complex
1 gene/2 alleles (LpLp)
known as the on/off gene and is dominant
two Lp genes produces a 'fewspot' appaloosa pattern, in this game it appears as a dusted edge, instead of solid edge and offers minaturized spots
PATN Pattern
26 genes/2 to 4 alleles (I assume 2 to 4 alleles each, but I wonder if it's PATN 1 through PATN 26? Or of it's genes for each 'part' of the body)
as stated: 'PATN1 causes the most white to appear on the body and is hidden in two breeds' Example PATN1 snowflake Doubled blanket with snowflakes
maybe there is more than one PATN1 types? I can't believe, that with what we know, Larissa didn't put a full leopard PATN1 somewhere in the game. PATN2 blanket Doubled blanket with less spots?
works as dominant
I wonder if one of these, PATN is snowflake incomplete dominant, but when inherits a second of the same PATN,
it offers a blanket instead, but… some still show snowflakes?
on web, PATN2 is responsible for butt blankets that can extend to the shoulder, stomach but not legs
on the web, doubled PATN2 offers the same blanket, but with few to no spots, it also says that PATN2 is for 'any other pattern that is not PATN1'
Tarpan does not carry PATN1 (large white area)
Snowflake for ease of use, I will name this gene Sn1 and Sn2
2 genes/3 to 100 alleles
is snowflake completely separate from PATN? As stated 'snowflake density: all breeds are capable of developing snowflake spots…'
as stated: 'one breed carries high density and one breed carries extreme density' which could mean that one of the genes is an incomplete dominant
what do I know? I know that two snowflake parents can produce a blanket but also has snowflakes, which means what? They both have Lp, they both have snowflake, but neither carries the PATN1 gene. So, the snowflake gene can be an incomplete dominant, meaning two creates blankets, but then any snowflake carrier will produce blankets 50% when crossed with other snowflake carriers. So it is not an incomplete dominant for blankets. which means what? Since this has two genes, that means one is strictly snowflake and the other is snowflake and blanket. So now there is a new question. Can the snowflake blanket spread if only bred to other snowflake blankets where the snowflake spreads?
assuming above, then I will say that Sn1 is for snowflake only and Sn2 is incomplete dominant for snowflake and pattern
Spot Size for ease of use, I will name this gene Sp1 and Sp2(a & b)
2 genes/4 alleles & 2 alleles
4 different sizes
sizes are tiny, normal, medium and large
two breeds carry medium and large size
belgian offers medium
forest horse offers large
Sp1 offers spots, when doubled Sp1 offers two separate sized spots
I think that there is also an incomplete dominant at work, but I'm not sure how that works out or what it offers, or co-dominant.
Sp2 controls size, as simple on/off switches with dominant/recessive at work; one allele will offer one size, two offers the second size, three offers the third size and four offers the fourth size. I do not know which is recessive to which, but I assume that normal size is dominant and that this only comes into play when there is a double Sp1.
all horses that carry PATN must also carry Sp1 and Sp2
Spot Density 1 gene/100 alleles
I am assuming that the 100 alleles is split between areas and denseness, meaning you can have areas of more dense versus less
Varnish Roan 20 genes with 2 to 100 alleles each
All horses will varnish roan, but expressions can be subtle to extreme
Bronzing 1 gene with 100 alleles
black-based horses can appear chestnut in color
OPIC REVIEW: TIPS APPRECIATED ^^
Re: Tips Appreciated ^^
Post by EclipticEnd » September 5th, 2022, 5:21 pm
Some small tips of my own:
If it's a Black nose, then only one cream or pearl at the most. Black nosed horses are also not champagne. These include palomino and buckskin, for example.
If it's a Pink nose, check for obvious or faint speckles/freckles. Also check near the eyes. No freckles means cream and/or pearl, whereas obvious freckles means champagne. Faint freckles means champagne with one or more other dilutions, such as cream.
If it's a Pink nose without freckles, are the eyes grey/blue or brown? If they're grey/blue then it's either 2x cream or 1x cream 1x pearl. If they're brown then it's 2x pearl. If they're a different color, then there's 2x Tiger Eye genes in play.
If you know that a parent has two genes (for instance, a cremello has two cream genes), then you immediately know that the foal has one of those genes, courtesy of that parent. This also works in reverse; if you know that a parent has no genes (for instance, a chestnut has no extension (black) genes), then you know that the foal is missing one of those genes. A parent can only pass down what genes it has, so if, for example, you get a black from a chestnut, then the black horse can only have one black gene (Ee).
The above tip is useful in writing out genetics, but it's also good to keep in mind when you're dealing with a dilution mixture that's unfamiliar to you. If you can narrow down that one parent has two cream, or the parent has no cream, then you can narrow down the color of the foal.
Practice is good. Go through your un-labeled horses and work on assigning them colors. If you're not sure of a color, try using genetic notation to figure it out before asking for help. Genetic notation would be the Es and the Crs that stand for the genes present in the horse. (I'm always here if you have questions on those or want a walkthrough :) )Of course, direct shout-outs can be made if one finds their information linked here and wishes to be given full credit.
I also allow any use of this straightforward post to be used in references/guides. Most data was found lurking in the What Colour Is My Horse? forum.
Questions can be made on this thread regarding this post.
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Callen
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Re: The Beaming Fields
As to go on with my projects:
Sooty Forest Horses are coming along well, with my best being https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3677174
Dappled Turks are getting there. I've just picked up a great stallion from the AC so he'll do great paired with my other gal. So far, no dapples from foals. It's just a very slow waiting game.
Sooty Forest Horses are coming along well, with my best being https://www.horseworldonline.net/horse/profile/3677174
Dappled Turks are getting there. I've just picked up a great stallion from the AC so he'll do great paired with my other gal. So far, no dapples from foals. It's just a very slow waiting game.
